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Oral History Program

Lynda Goodrich

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TB: Today is Thursday, March 16, 2017. My
name is Tamara Belts. I’m here with Lynda
Goodrich and Paul Madison. We’re going to do a
oral history with Lynda. I’m first going to ask her
a few questions about how she got to Western,
and then I think Paul will ask more about her
long career here.
So my first question is: How did you choose to
come to Western as a student?
LG: Well, first I went to PLU out of high school,
and then decided -- I wanted to be a missionary,
actually. Then after a year at PLU, I changed my
mind and decided I wanted to be a teacher. So
this was the college of education and the college to go to, so that’s why I transferred to Western.
TB: So what were your dates of attendance at Western?
LG: 1963 to 1966, for my BA degree.
TB: And then, what -- you’ve already answered, the BA degree. And then did you get your master’s
here as well?
LG: I did, in 1973. I came back in 1971 as a graduate student because Margaret told me I could coach
basketball and volleyball, and so that was one of the reasons I wanted to come back so I could coach.
And I got my master’s degree in 1973, and then they hired me to continue coaching and teaching.
TB: And I assume that that was Margaret Aitkin?
LG: Margaret Aitkin.
TB: Was she the athletic director or just –

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LG: No, she was the department chair. And I
think she was the chair of women’s physical
education at that time, and then the
departments merged and she became the
chair of both. And I don’t remember the year
they merged, but it was a big landmark thing
to do, and particularly to put a woman in
charge of both, because athletics then did
report to the chair of physical education.
Later they separated out athletics from
physical education. And when they did that,
they asked me, do you want to go physical
education, or do you want to go athletics?
And I chose athletics.
TB: So, what was your first job after leaving Western the first time?
LG: I taught at West Seattle High School, physical education, for five years.
TB: Okay. And then when you were at Western as a student, where did you live? Did you live in the
dorms? Any favorite memories?
LG: Well when I first came to Western, they didn’t have any rooms in the dorms, so we lived in one of
those off campus houses, right down here on State Street, where there were six of us. A family would
take you in, give you room and board. And then after a quarter, Higginson, a room opened up in
Higginson, so I moved into Higginson.
And then when I became I think a junior, you could move off campus. Up until then, you couldn’t move
off campus until you were a junior. And most of us fled off campus because you had to be in by 10 pm
on week days and 12 am on week nights, and so as soon as we were able, we, you know, found
apartments.
TB: And actually, could you tell us a little bit about what the dress code was then for women?
LG: Yes. You had to wear skirts or dresses before 4 o’clock to all classes, and you couldn’t wear pants or
shorts on campus before that time. It was pathetic. Can I add that?
TB: Who were your favorite and most influential teachers, and why?
LG: Well, first was Margaret Aitken. She was really a brilliant woman. I had her for several classes,
theory classes. She was really demanding yet fair, and just a straight shooter, very direct. And I just
thought she was really an awesome teacher.

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The second one was Lou Kilby, who taught methods. And she was -- and also coached, I was coached by
her for a while in field hockey. But she was just a superb teacher, taught us a lot about how to teach,
and was really inspirational.
TB: So your main courses studied would have been physical education. Did you have a minor?
LG: I did, history and English.
TB: Okay. Anything else about what classes that you liked the best and learned the most from?
LG: Well, I think I liked methods, methods of teaching. That was one of my favorite courses. I enjoyed
my history and lit classes immensely too. I originally I wanted to be a history teacher, but DeLorme was
the chair then, and I met with him, and he said there weren’t any jobs in history teaching unless you
were a man and a coach. And so that’s why I decided to go -- truly, I was just being practical. Where
were the jobs? I loved physical education too, so that’s why I went that route.
TB: Okay. And then, this might end up moving on into your athletics because my next question is:
Which extracurricular activities did you enjoy the most?
LG: Well obviously, I played basketball, field hockey, any sport that they had going I was involved with.
TB: Nothing else. I’ll probably turn it over to Paul, then.
PM: Okay. Let’s go back to your days at Lake Stevens High School, a young girl, 16, 17, 18 years old, and
opportunities as far as athletics and sports and your situation while you were there.
LG: They were very limited. They didn’t have athletics for girls. We had what were called play days.
And let’s say there’s a basketball play day, you’d sign up for it, whoever wanted to go from your school
would go and meet up at a central location with all these other kids from other schools, and they’d put
you, assign you on a team, never more than two from the same school on the team because they didn’t
want you to be too competitive. And then we would play basketball all day, and then we would have
punch and cookies afterwards. And I always call it the punch and cookie era. And this is before Title IX,
and opportunities for girls were really limited. I know for myself, I loved playing basketball. I used to go
to the playground and play with the boys, and that was the only place I could really play basketball.
TB: Could we just insert: Would you describe what basketball was like then?
LG: Well for girls –
TB: For girls, yes.
LG: -- it was 3-on-3, half-court basketball, and that’s what I played in high school. And then, they added
a rover, so one person could go full court, so it ended up being 4-on-4 in the half court. But if you
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weren’t the rover, you could only run to half court, then you had to stop. They were just afraid that we
were going to hurt our reproductive organs if we ran too much. I’m serious.
PM: Oh, I know, I read it.
LG: And it wasn’t until 1971 that the rules changed to 5-player basketball, which in the scheme of things
isn’t that long ago.
PM: Right.
PM: I think one time we were talking and you talked about the fact that there was one day a year where
the girls got to play a game before the men’s game.
LG: Yes, we would do the juniors and the seniors, and so we would play -- we got to play before a boys’
game. And we played regular rules, and, you know, a 5-player game. And honestly, we had some great
athletes when I went to school. I just look back and think, what a terrible thing that they didn’t have an
opportunity to pursue that. And all of us, we were just wanting it so badly, and we’d look forward to
practice and get ready for that one time.
PM: So we’ll go a little bit farther ahead to Western and what women’s athletics was at the time you
were at Western as an athlete, a student athlete.
LG: As a student athlete? Well, it wasn’t too different from high school, except we did play other
colleges in field hockey and in basketball, very limited. Probably the premiere sport though was field
hockey. You know, I remember traveling to Oregon, to the University of Oregon and playing. But it was
always in a tournament format. So if you played in field hockey, you might go and play for a weekend.
You might play two or three or four games, kind of just -- And there wasn’t ever any standings or winloss records. It was just playing. And in basketball, we played other schools, but the same thing. We
might play two games in a day.
When I first started coaching, we played two games in a day, because we were trying to get games in.
So, when you look back, it was tough.
PM: Yes. One time you made a humorous remark about the vocations that were open to women –
LG: Well, I felt for me that I could be a nurse, a secretary, or a teacher. And I didn’t like blood, I wasn’t a
very good typist, so, and teaching seemed to be the best option. I remember when I was in high school,
I thought I wanted to be a lawyer, and I went in to check out a book on the law. And a woman librarian
said, What are you doing? And I said, Well, I’m interested in going into law. She goes, women are not
lawyers, put it back. And, you know, when you look back on that, it’s amazing that women
accomplished -- well it’s no wonder we revolted and said, you know, it’s about time we got some
equality.

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PM: Exactly. Okay, now you’ve come through Western and you’re at West Seattle High School, and tell
us a little bit about the fight or the, as far as athletics while you were there.
LG: Well, there again, it was still in that era of play days, and then it evolved to sports days. And sports
days where you could play as a team from your school, but you would go to a -- all of us would go, like in
the Seattle school district, we would all maybe go to Rainier Beach, and we might play some other team.
At least we were playing as a team, representing our school. But there were no varsity sports for girls.
And everything was revolving around sports days in all the sports.
And, you know, at that time was about the time that the women’s movement really started getting
under way, and likewise it was the same in athletics. There are several of us that taught P.E. in the
Seattle school districts, and we’d get together at somebody’s house at night and talk about, try to
strategize how we could put pressure on the school district to allow girls to have athletics and varsity
sports. And I look back at some of those women, I can’t remember their names, but one became head
of the WIA, you know, another became the athletic director for Seattle Public Schools. So, you know,
there were some women there that really had the gumption to take on the school district. And it was a
fight. There was no funding. We used to sell concessions at the boys’ games, and any money we made
we could use to help our teams.
By the time I left, after five years, basketball and gymnastics, and I think track, were varsity sports, and
then eventually the others. The others followed, but it was a struggle.
TB: Just one quick one, what about tennis?
LG: No. We didn’t even have tennis, I don’t think, in the Seattle School District. Probably because of
facilities. You know, I doubt that the schools had tennis courts.
TB: Okay.
PM: So, what were the rules that you were coaching at West Seattle under, and then also, you were
also involved with AAU?
LG: Yes, for basketball it was the same. It was the same as the college at that time. It was, you know,
half-court basketball with a rover, so basically 4-on-4 in the half court. But I, loving basketball joined an
AAU team and there were several players on that that I played against, like Central or different
universities, and we formed an AAU team. Which at that time, AAU was the mecca for women in sport.
There was a national championship. Some of the best teams in the country, you know, Wayland Baptist
was really good, the Flying Queens from Wayland Baptist. In the South, they were much more
progressive than we were up here in women’s basketball. But we formed an AAU team, and we would
play in Canada, and we’d play other AAU teams, but our goal obviously was to get to the national
tournament, which we did. And that was 5-player basketball and full court. And I played that until I
severely hurt my ankle, and so I was really limited the last couple of years, and so I was kind of the
assistant coach, but I learned a lot about 5-player basketball in that experience.
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PM: Title IX starts in 1972, but a lot of people think that that’s when things [got going], but there was
actually that huge movement by people such as you who took it to the point where Title IX was pushed
forward.
LG: Yes, I think Title IX was a result of women saying enough, enough. It was just like our group and the
Seattle school district, well, that was happening I’m sure nationwide, obviously. But Title IX wasn’t just
for athletics, you know, that was supposed to be a small part of it. It was for anything. Like if a
university offered an engineering class, they couldn’t -- you know at that time, engineering was really
under represented by women, same as the sciences. They couldn’t withhold that from a woman making
that a major. That’s why Title IX says that whatever activity you have, whether it’s a class or athletics,
the number of women in that program should be the same as the number of undergraduate women you
have in your university. And that was the crux of Title IX.
Well what happened was, and if you didn’t do it, you wouldn’t get any federal funding, so the
universities were like, Ooh, we can’t lose federal funding. And they probably -- the universities probably
moved quicker than the high schools, but the high schools had to follow suit as well. But it didn’t hold
much teeth until [someone at] WSU filed a Title IX lawsuit and won, and I think it was Brown University.
And they had to pay huge damages and it went back. And when that happened, that’s when, because
there were court cases prior to that and they didn’t really get upheld, so there wasn’t the teeth into Title
IX. But once it was upheld in court and those universities had to pay, you know, money speaks, and so
then people started jumping on ship.
PM: Do you feel like Western was a little bit ahead of the –
LG: I do. I think, I think we -- I mean, it was a struggle. Let’s face it, I mean, my team won in 1972,
wasn’t it? Yes, 1973 maybe, 1972-1973, to go to the national tournament in New York. We had no
funding. So we did bake sales and garage sales, and kids had to bring in their own money to go. We
won again the next year and we had to go to Manhattan, Kansas. Same thing. And at that point, I can
remember going into Margaret Aitken and saying, Look, I’ve sold my last damn cookie. If you want to
have women’s athletics, you need to start funding it, because this is ridiculous. You’re punishing us for
being successful. I think they just wished we wouldn’t win because of, you know, the pressure was on.
But I think because we had Margaret Aitken and myself, I think I was really pushing, and we had Mary
Robinson, who was the dean of students, I think our university was ahead of it. And that was obvious in
our success. We were successful from the get go, and part of that was because of the women who were
here at that time. And I think, you know, Western prides itself on being liberal and forward thinking,
and I think it was even that way then.
PM: We were talking when we won our first regional championship. We’d lost to Washington State the
year before. Now you and Western Washington and Washington State are in the championship game
again, and unlike the first one, it gets to be played at Western. Can you tell about that story about it
how it ended up being played not in the Gym D or in the little gym or the women’s gym, but it became,
got to be played in the main gym –

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LG: Old Carver, that it’s called now. It used to be called Gym D and the women’s gym, and that’s where
we played our games. But since we got to host, I convinced Boyde Long and Chuck Randall, although
remember that game was played in the afternoon so we wouldn’t interfere with any of their games, to
play it on the main court. And I think we had about 2,000 people there.
PM: Yes, it was huge.
LG: It’s considered the largest crowd to see a women’s basketball game nationally. And I think we only
won by –
PM: Two points.
LG: -- two points. It was really a close game. And my favorite memory of that game now is when there
was a crucial time we scored a basket, it’s coming down to the wire, and all the way across the gym, this
male student who’s up about three or four rows jumps out of the stands cheering, and I thought, We’ve
arrived! And we didn’t play any more games in the little, the girls’ gym. But we had to play in the
afternoons so we didn’t interfere with the men, and then eventually, you know, things evened out. But
it took a while.
I have to hand it to Boyde and Chuck, I think they came around to it gnashing their teeth. I remember
Chuck Randall saying to me, What must I do to keep you in the girls’ gym? I said, Well I need glass
backboards. I need a clock. And that was for -- but I said, But that’s for practice only. (Laughter.)
LG: And we did get those things. But I said, We’re still playing in the big gym.
PM: So now, Western because of that, they’re going to New York. And one of the teams that we played
there after our first, we win the first round, is Immaculata.
LG: Right.
PM: Immaculata was the first “Tennessee.” I mean, it was like “the” –
LG: Yep. They were the -- well I think they won three straight national championships –
PM: Right. They’d won one the year before.
LG: -- under Cathy Rush, the coach. And there’s a great movie out called The Mighty Macs about their
story.
It was only a 16-team tournament. So we’re in the round of 8, and we have to play Immaculata. And
the nuns of Immaculata would come to the games with their pans and wooden spoons and beat on it
the whole time. And that is when, after that is when the NCAA outlawed -- (Laughter.)

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LG: -- when we became NCAA, they outlawed noise makers at games, because it was really deafening.
But that was a leading reason, I think.
PM: Immaculata went on to win the national title after that. That was their second one. But they only
won by seven points over Western.
LG: Right. We gave them a battle.
PM: Yes.
LG: They were good, though.
PM: So now, if you could talk a little bit about the caliber of competition that you had that you were
facing during your early years at Western. I mean, you’re talking about the top schools in the Pacific
Northwest.
LG: Yes, at that time, we were in AIAW. The women when we finally -- we got ourselves organized and
we formed the Association for Intercollegiate Athletics for Women, because the NCAA and NAIA didn’t
want any part of us. So we formed our own association, which in retrospect it’s too bad it went away,
because it had a lot of good things about it that, you know, the stress on education first, some of the
eligibility rules. I thought it was very forward thinking. Well, we all played then in the AIAW, and so that
meant in the Northwest, we kind of -- and I think we were in a conference. I’m trying to remember. But
we would play, you know, U of W, WSU, Oregon, Oregon State, Boise State, Idaho, and we were in that
league more -- we didn’t play the small schools. The smaller schools, the PLUs, those, they were in their
own conference, the religious school conference I think.
PM: Right, Northwest Conference.
LG: Yes. And so, we were in -- we played the major institutions. And then when the men realized that,
and I’ve always thought that the -- I mean, we were growing, we were getting stronger, and I think it
was one of those, if we don’t take them in -- Let’s take them in, then we can control them, rather than
let them be on their own, because we don’t know what will happen. And so then, they enticed primarily
the big schools, the WSUs, the UWs, across the country to go into the NCAA. And they offered them
monies to do it, and those programs left the AIAW. And when that happened, that spelled the demise
of the AIAW for all of us. And because our men were aligned with the NAIA, it made sense for us to then
also align with the NAIA, and that’s what we did.
And then eventually, you know, when I was the athletic director, we moved all of our programs to the
NCAA Division II. And I think that was a good decision because I think the NC2A (NCAA) does have more
money because of television and all the rest that they have going for them. I mean, men’s basketball
television revenue funds everything. And it allowed us to, I think, flourish better, and it’s ended up well.
I think we have a big conference now.

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PM: Can you just kind of state your philosophy of coaching, when you were the women’s basketball
coach at Western?
LG: Well, hmm, that’s a hard one I think. I think I expected my athletes to work really hard, to give it
their all; and if we won, great; if we lost, okay, there’s another game. And, you know, you don’t look
back, you just learn from it and move forward. And I think I would, I don’t think, I might have pushed
players. I don’t think I was ever demeaning. I don’t believe in being demeaned but being positive. I
learned early on in teaching that if you -- we call it coaching, “Tamara, you need to, when you’re
dribbling the ball, you need to push the ball a little harder to one side,” or something, and some players
would go, “She’s picking on me,” and they would never hear that. So, I soon developed to where I
would say, “Tamara, that was a great pass. But on your dribble, if you could...,” and then kind of open
their ears a little bit. So, I don’t know.
And you know, I love the competition. I love being able to pit myself against the strategy of the game
and being able to see if we can out think the other team.
I don’t know if that answered your question.
PM: No, it does. You won 20 games -- let’s see. You didn’t have a losing season in 19 years. You went
to the post-season 18 times out of that. You had 13 20-win seasons that’s even a little
discombobulating, the fact that you had to basically get to the post-season just to get 20 games.
LG: Yes, right. You know, my goal when I started at Western -- Prior to the year that I start in 1971, the
team had only played 8 games the previous year, so my first goal was to play 20 games, that was to me
like the benchmark, and that we should play at least 20. And that’s why we had to play sometimes 2 a
day to get that 20 in. But it’s like you said, I mean, we were 19-1 that second season, so it’s not a 20-win
season, but 19-1 isn’t too bad, so.
PM: Yes, that percentages isn’t too bad.
Were there any particular teams that kind of -- I know that through 19 years and all of them pretty
successful, or very successful. But were there any teams that kind of you think about or moments or
national, get in the nationals or –
LG: You know, somebody asked me that question, so I have thought about it, and I think there are
three. There’s the team that won 30-some games, and that was just an incredible year. I mean, to get
to 30 wins, and I don’t know what we ended up. Was it 30 or 31, or something?
PM: That was back in 1985 or – 1989.
LG: Yes. The one with Anna Rabel, yes.
PM: That would be 1989.
LG: And that was a really spectacular year.
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Then there’s the year that -- when Carmen played and we beat Gonzaga in the regionals here. And I’ll
never forget that game. It was really back and forth. I remember Carmen -- there was a tie ball, and
then we used to jump the tie balls. We take a timeout, and I said, First of all, we’ve got to get the tip.
We were down, I think by, what, two points? One point? We have to control the tip. And then we set
up this play for Lynda Dart. And Carmen said -- I said, Carmen, you’ve got to get the tip. She goes, I will
get the tip. And I think she might have even held [that other player] (inaudible, laughter). We got the
tip, Lynda Dart scores, and we win. And remember, there were still some seconds left, and my bench
just, and my assistant coach, Linda [Hopper rushed the court, like, ahh... And I know I was like, game
face on, grabbing her, Get back, there’s still seconds left. Because, you know, we still had to keep them
from scoring. And so it was like, I don’t know how long afterwards. They were making the presentation.
I still am like, we could have lost that game because you rushed the court. And I remember Anne
Cooper was standing next to me, our team captain. She goes, Coach, we won, you can smile now.
(Laughter.)
LG: And then the other one was the year that Cheryl Boxx and Lori deKubber and that group played.
And we weren’t very good in the beginning, and I thought, this is going to be a hard year. And they just
worked so hard and got better and better. And we ended up going to Lewiston, Lewis-Clark to play, and
we won. And then we had to go to Great Falls, and we won. And then we had to come back to Seattle
to do the Final Four, and we stopped, and we’re driving, you know, two or three cars, because they
didn’t do busses then. So we stopped in Spokane to practice at Eastern, and I’m thinking, How did this
team get here? But I’m giving this talk like, You’ve got to believe. You know, we’re playing Idaho, who
was really good. And I said, We can do it. You’ve just got to believe. And whatever it was. And Cheryl
Boxx, I remember, that she walks up to me and goes, Coach, I believe. And, you know, we almost won
that game. Lori deKubber made a shot and they ruled that it went off after the clock and we lost.
PM: Oh wow.
TB: Oh.
LG: And you know, that was just an amazing year, so. But, you know, they all had their own story to
tell. Every season has a story to tell.
PM: I think some people, they think of women’s basketball as not being physical, but I just, I remember
-- you might want to tell some stories about the Gonzagas and the rivalry that we had for a while.
LG: Yes, we had a huge rivalry with Gonzaga because we were the two best teams. And they had a
couple players on their team that were really mouthy. But I remember when we played them here, the
one player, she always would get technicals in a game. And I remember we had a student hold up a sign
that said, So-and-so, your technical average is better than your GPA. (Laughter.)
LG: But only at Western, you know, it’s kind of like -- So we did our part to incite that too. And we’re
over there, and we -- I can’t remember, even, if we won. I think we won. And that’s when Boyde was
the athletic director. He was over there. And the baseball team would sit along the sidelines and just
harass our team. And I remember one time, Lori deKubber is taking the ball out of bounds, and this guy,
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a baseball player, reaches up and grabs her shorts and pulls her shorts down. And she took her hand,
put one hand on the ball, took the other hand and knocked his hand off her butt, and the official gives
her a technical foul. And I can remember just losing it, and I remember going toward that official with
the thought, He’s a little guy, I’m going to pick him up (laughter) and I’m going to throw him across the
court. And I remember my hands were like this and I’m like, take a breath. And I go, What kind of call
was that? And he goes, I’ve got to protect the fans. I said, You should be protecting the players.
But anyway, then after that game, they’re shaking hands, and suddenly these fans rush the court and
start getting in a fight. I think it happened with two of our players exchanging, or our player and their
player. Somebody threw a punch, and it’s like emptying -- I was getting my stuff on the bench with my
back [to the floor], and all of a sudden I see this body slide across the floor. And I remember thinking
what the heck, and Boyde was rushing out. It was just a mess.
We don’t have to play them anymore, I think technically.
PM: Yes. So now you’re going to make the transition from coach to AD. Any thoughts about that time?
LG: Well you know, that was an interesting time. I loved coaching. I didn’t have thoughts about
becoming an athletic director. Boyde resigned. And the president then, G. Robert Ross, who I knew. I
mean, we used to play tennis together. He calls me, he said, Would you apply for the job? I’m going to
do an internal search. And I go, I don’t want to be the AD. I don’t want to be, I mean, over men and
women, no, I don’t want to be that, you know, pathfinder. I’ve done that. And I watched Margaret
Aitken go through the stuff she had to go through. And I said, Why would I want to do that? You don’t
pay me enough as a basketball coach. He goes, Well, I’ll pay you a little more.
And I go, I don’t know, I’ll have to think about it. And so he convinced me, so I applied, then got the job.
And I said, Well I’m not going to give up coaching, because I thought, if I don’t like what I’m doing, I can
always go back to coaching. And so I did both for three years. But I was hired in May, and in November,
Ross and Jeanne DeLille, and –
TB: Cole.
LG: -- Don Cole were killed in the plane wreck. And I really thought, I think I’m not going to do this
because it was hard being a woman AD over both. There were very few of us in the country. And men
weren’t very accepting of having a woman over their programs. And I thought, I can do it as long as you
have the support of the president. I mean, that’s the most important person on campus, and as long as I
had him, I felt comfortable. But when he died, I thought, maybe I should step back. And at his
memorial, Betty Ross comes up to me and hugs me, and she’s hugging me and she goes, You do a good
job. Bob had a lot of faith in you. So you make sure that you show them that he was right. And I’m
thinking, Christ, now I got to do this. But I coached then for three years before I decided, okay, I could
do it.
Plus Carmen was my assistant then, and she was itching to become a head coach. And I wasn’t really
ready to step down then because I had a good team. But I knew that if I didn’t step down, let her take
the reins that we’d lose her, that she would go somewhere else as a head coach, because she was ready.
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And that’s probably the best decision I ever made as an athletic director in hiring, because she’s proven
to be just one of the best coaches in the country, if not the best coach.
PM: Speaking of that, more often than not, I mean, like way more often than not, the coaches that you
hired were coaches that had never been head coaches at the collegiate level.
LG: I know.
PM: That isn’t so much the question, but it’s just like, what were some of the things that you looked for
in a coach when you made these hiring decisions.
LG: You know, what’s really funny is I didn’t realize that until somebody listed out all the coaches that I
had hired that hadn’t had head coaching experience. And you know at the time, even though that’s a
factor, their experience is a factor, I mean, that’s something you take into consideration, but more
important to me was what their philosophy was, how they were with people. And I think -- I don’t mean
to sound like I’m bragging, but I think one of my greatest strengths is being able to read people. I get a
sense about a person, and so I listen to it. And that’s what I did in many of the hires. I just felt like they
were the right fit for Western after talking with them, reading their letters, but really, after meeting with
them and talking to them. And it’s worked out okay.
PM: Yes, more than okay.
The move from the NAIA to NCAA Division II, we were in a tough spot with the NAIA with football and
that type of different situation, but what kind of happened during that time to kind of push that –
LG: Yes, you know, like I said, the NAIA was losing its prestige, but then one of the major issues was in
football we were aligned with schools in the private sector, Linfield, PLU, Pacific, Lewis-Clark, and they
opted to go NCAA Division III. And I remember meeting with them and said -- and they didn’t want to
have Western or Central or any of us in there. And so I met with them and said, If we went Division III,
would you play us, would you put us in your football conference? And they said no. And there was no
cajoling on that. In fact, Eastern Oregon worked for years to try to get them to take them in, and they
just were not going to have any part of a public institution in their conference.
So then we had to look. Did we want to stay and try to be independent in football? Or did we want to
look at going NCAA ourselves? Then at that time, I think Seattle Pacific was NCAA, maybe Billings, and
so I did a lot of -- and Karen Morse helped a lot in talking to presidents. I talked with ADs about getting a
conference together of Division II schools. And we started with the Hawaii’s with us, and then had to
break that apart. But we really didn’t have a choice, I didn’t think, and joining NCAA was a good fit for
us, at Division II. And competitively it was a good fit. So you know, it did cost us a little more money
than the NAIA because of somethings, but I think in the long run it’s worked out really well.
PM: Back in 1989, you made the decision to hire Rob Smith, and that was a tough situation because
you’re the woman AD and making decisions about football, and your thoughts about the program at
that time and what would eventually happen.
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LG: Well, prior to that I fired the football coach, which was like, How could a woman [fire a football
coach]? You know, it was interesting because Ross and I had that discussion about the football program
and whether that coach would continue, and we both agreed to give him another year and then make
that decision, but probably he was done. So I made it anyway. And Al Froderberg was the acting
president -- no, actually Mortimer came in.
PM: Right.
LG: And I know Mortimer used to tease me about -- one of the first things that happened when he took
the presidency is I fired the football coach. And there was an uproar, and then Rob was an assistant in
our program, and I just thought he was a great fit for us, and he was. I mean, he turned out to be just an
awesome football coach.
PM: And the best years ever -LG: Yes. And then he decided to hang it up, and now he’s back coaching. And then we hired Robin
Ross, and then we eventually had to drop the program because of the state cutting our budget
tremendously.
PM: I remember you at the time saying either we are going to do well in it, or … (Laughter.)
LG: Well I felt like it.
PM: And he did.
LG: Yes, I think football is -- you know, at the big schools it’s the goose that lays the golden egg. All their
money comes from football, TV, gate and so on. That’s not the case at our level. Most of our budget
goes to support football. But if you’re good at it, then it helps every program be successful, because an
interesting thing with people, and I still hear it in the community, if football and men’s basketball are
doing well, then the whole program must be good. They don’t think about the soccer and the women’s
programs or anything else. It’s always those two. And football was really terrible for a long time at our
institution, and it drug the full program down, you know, trying to get donations, trying to get things
funded. People would only look at that and just think it’s not worth it. But then, the hiring of Rob and
getting some more resources in that program, we became very good, and it helped everybody.
PM: Seven national titles in women’s rowing, one in softball while we were in the NAIA, and then the
men’s basketball, I mean, (inaudible, pretty amazing things.
LG: Yeah, honestly I’m so proud of those national championships. It’s so hard to win a national
championship in any sport, to accomplish that is just a real testament to the athletes and the coaches
and our program. And you know, we’ve had volleyball’s been a runner up a couple, I mean, right there
at the door, and now women’s soccer winning. I mean, it’s just a great testament to the program, I
think, and you hold on to those. And we’ve had a lot of individual national champions in track and field.
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But it’s a hard thing to do, and it’s especially hard in a team sport like men’s basketball. That was a
special time.
PM: As an AD, there were so many things that we would do just to say, you know, we’re going to do
this. And you know, it might be Viking night, or it might be some kind of a fundraiser, or it might be
different things. What are some of the things that you thought were some of the main
accomplishments that you [were involved in]?
LG: Well I think –
PM: Other than the national championships.
LG: I think a couple. I think I was really instrumental in the state funding tuition waivers for women
athletes, which boded well for all of our programs. You know, I served on a committee, a state
committee that met with the legislature, and we put a lot of pressure on it. And in 1989, that came to
fruition. And that opened the door for scholarships, which we had been lacking.
And then I think with that, it really -- coupled with that but also aside, I recognized that we really needed
to -- you know, you’re not going to get the money from the state or the institution, you are going to
have to do it for yourself. So you’ve got to find a way to make some money to fund the program,
because honestly what the state gives us and the institution can give us, isn’t enough. You have to
fundraise.
And prior to me becoming AD, we had zero dollars in scholarships monies or in the foundation. And I
don’t know how many millions it’s up to, but it is in endowed scholarships, and plus the annual
fundraisers that we do to help fund the program. I just think, you know, even the signage, the sign
boards that we did was an opportunity to get marketing dollars in for our program. And that was huge.
So, I would think that, I would count that as one of my major accomplishments, was to get us moving in
that direction.
PM: You never seemed to be afraid to try something.
LG: No. You know, I don’t, and that’s silly, isn’t it? (Laughter.)
I know. Well I talk to people, and you’re in counsel and coaches, and I just believe that sometimes you
have to take risks to succeed. Sometimes your risks work and sometimes they don’t. But if you don’t
ever try, you’ll never know, so you might as well put yourself out there and go for it. And within reason,
I mean, you can’t bankrupt everything. But you know, we had some really good things, so I think a
Battle in Seattle was a huge risk because we had to come up, you know, guarantee a lot of money, but
that really ended up being a great, great thing for us.
PM: Just, your philosophy of life?

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LG: Well, I’m the eternal optimist, as you know, Paul. I always see the glass half full and always live for
today. And I think about tomorrow. I don’t worry about yesterday. And I just, the sun’s always shining
for me. And I’d rather live that way than the other. I don’t hold grudges, and I don’t want to be bitter
about anything, because all that does is make me, you know, bitter. So I know I’m probably sometimes
overly rosy-filled glasses, but it’s okay.
PM: Better than the other way.
LG: Yes.
PM: Looking back would you ever have thought like that you would be a Golden Viking?
LG: That’s amazing, isn’t it? I know it. I went to my 50-year reunion in high school a few years ago, and
I’m like, 50 years and they all look so old. (Laughter.)
LG: And yes, I’m a Golden Viking plus one.
PM: Yes, that’s amazing.
What are some of the things that you like to do, like, not just now, but I mean throughout your time at
Western as a coach and as an AD, some of the things you liked to do away from -- just, I thought one of
the neat things about you is the fact that you actually had a life. You actually made sure that you still
had a life.
LG: And you know, I preach that to our staff too, coaches, you, everybody: Make sure that you have
balance in your life, because I think that’s really important. If you put all your eggs in that basket, you
know, it’s not healthy, and so you have to have balance.
Early on, I played a lot of golf. I loved golf. I liked competitive golf. And then I became the AD, and that
kind of went by the wayside because I didn’t have enough, as much time. And golf is a time consuming
sport.
I’ve always loved gardening. And you know, my house I think I’ve been through three remodels, and the
gardens are always changing things there. But you know, that gives me a lot of pleasure. Actually, I’m
really glad I have that. I have five acres, and it allows me that to do in my retirement. You know, I’d
hate to think about retiring and not having a hobby or anything to go to.
And I like activities. I like to exercise, so I try to make that a part of every day. I like to read. I like to do
crossword puzzles, as you know. I’m into jigsaw puzzles now. And once in a while, I play a little
blackjack. (Laughter.)
LG: It’s that gambling thing.

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TB: I had a couple more, just a little bit, talk about again, like your relationships with presidents. You
talked about how important Ross was. Can you talk a little bit about how your relationships with the
other presidents, how important? Because you and Morse especially –
LG: Well, my first president after Ross was Mortimer, and at that time the AD reported to the president,
and then he moved me to the vice president, to Saunie Taylor. But that wasn’t, I didn’t take it as a
slight. He moved other people that had been reporting to the president that way. And I probably had
less to do with him after I moved reportage than others.
Then Karen Morse became president and we had her for for fifteen years. And she and her husband
really loved athletics, so that was great for us because she came to games, you know, went on the road,
and was just -- became a good friend. And you know, I cherished that.
And then we had Bruce, who I just think was really a great president. I really respect him. Totally
different personality than Karen, but really a good man. I will always be thankful to him for when we
faced the challenge of dropping football, how he handled it. He stood up and said, This is my decision.
And he took the brunt of it. I mean, I got my share of nasty emails, but he took the brunt of it. And you
know, I’ve seen other institutions where the presidents weren’t so giving. They kind of threw the AD
under the bus, and he never did that. And I always admired that in him. And then, he was my last one.
TB: What about, you know, you mentioned you used to play tennis with Ross, was that -- I guess I’m
trying to get at, is there a kind of a political, or was it strictly just playing tennis or –
LG: Yes, because he was a tennis player, and I had played tennis at the time. I used to play tennis at the
tennis club all the time. And so he found out I played tennis, and he liked to play once in a while, and so
he would arrange some double matches. I can remember one where Irwin LeCocq was on the board of
trustees, and he was playing with Ann Heaps, who was in our Counseling Center, and Ross and I, we
would play them. And Irwin was a smartass, and he was giving us the worst time. And I went back to
serve, and Ross walked back with me, which is unusual in tennis because usually your partner stays up.
And I said, What are you doing back here? And he goes, You know what’s worse than playing with a
board of trustee member? No, I don’t know. He goes, One that’s a smartass. (Laughter.)
LG: I’ll never forget that. And then, one time he had to really run to get a ball that was over, and he
finally got there and lobbed it back, and he goes, Well it took me a while, but I did get there. And he
was a big man, so he was fun.
TB: Well, is there anything else that, especially Paul, but that we haven’t asked you that you think is an
important part of your story here at Western?
LG: I can’t think of anything. You guys asked a lot of questions. You covered it from the beginning to
the end almost.

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PM: (Inaudible.) You talked about your mentors, I mean, like Dr .Aitken and Kilby, and I guess the only
thing that we didn’t bring up was how Dr. Ames, who was the basketball coach, one of the basketball
coaches when Lynda was there, would take Lynda out of the game because of the look on her face.
LG: She did that once. (Laughter.) Yes, I was very intense. I used to design plays, even then. I’d say,
you know -- and I didn’t even know what they were called.
PM: Wow.
LG: Because I hadn’t been taught. But I’d basically design give and goes, and pick and rolls. And I’d say I
think we can score on this, and I’d show them to her. And we’d practice it and do it. (Laughter.)
TB: I did have one more question though that we will keep in, maybe. I mean, it’s just that I appreciate
the fact that you continued to stay. I mean, you’re at all the games and stuff like that. Actually both of
you are. But I mean, how’s that when you’re -- is it nicer to go because you don’t have any obligation, or
is it sometimes you think, oh come on?
LG: No, I sit there and go, go to zone, do this, put in so and so. But then when the game’s over, it’s over
for me. But you know, I was that way anyway, so. I really enjoy going, but it’s nice that I don’t have to
get there until game time, and I can leave right after the game. Because Paul will tell you, that wasn’t
the case when you’re working. You know, on game nights you’re there a long time, Paul much longer
than the rest of us, yes.
PM: Amen. Yes, before and after.
TB: Well terrific! Well thank you both very much. This was really awesome.
LG: Thank you.
TB: So thank you.

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