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KVOS Special: The Key To The College Door

  • There are many reasons why students
  • do come to college these days.
  • Some come, of course, to get married,
  • to find a husband or even a wife.
  • Some come, many come, to improve their status,
  • to find a better job, to prepare themselves for a professional
  • or high vocational position, perhaps
  • to improve thereby, almost certainly to improve thereby,
  • their earning power.
  • Some of course, come because it's the thing to do,
  • because these days people do tend to go on to college.
  • Sometimes students will go on in the manner of a drift
  • into the college of their choice having nothing better
  • to do at the time.
  • However, if one asks, what is the best reason for going
  • to college, one has to think, because there
  • are many good reasons.
  • I think I would give my reason as this,
  • to help fulfill one's human potentiality, to repair
  • one's major deficiencies as one interprets them,
  • let's say, upon high school graduation.
  • I think that students should come to college
  • in a sense of humility.
  • It was Socrates after all who pointed out,
  • I think truly, that unless one understands his own ignorance,
  • he is in no position to learn.
  • With that understanding, one can come to college hopeful
  • that he will learn and that he will grow in wisdom.
  • When should a student start planning for college?
  • Actually, a student should start planning at the beginning
  • of the ninth grade year.
  • That soon?
  • Yes.
  • The colleges base their entrance requirements
  • upon four years of high school.
  • I see.
  • So the ninth grade is really a very important part
  • of the high school program.
  • --the schools begin getting information
  • to students that soon?
  • Yes, we start preparing in the eighth grade.
  • At the end of the eighth grade year, each student
  • is given one of our B books, a little booklet
  • that will explain the entire high school program to them.
  • It also explains all of our courses,
  • and we have prepared in this booklet a college preparatory
  • course.
  • So a student can check very carefully
  • and make his preparations before he starts high school.
  • One of the things it would seem that a student and a parent
  • would have to determine is what are the alternatives
  • to going to college.
  • What are they?
  • Actually, a student will have several possibilities
  • facing him.
  • There are technical schools.
  • Upon leaving high school, many of the boys
  • are concerned with military service.
  • Some students are interested in apprenticing in the trades,
  • also going right to work from high school.
  • How does a student determine whether he should go to college
  • or whether he should go to a technical school
  • or what have you?
  • Very often, his academic success in high school
  • will be a determining factor.
  • A student's own planning, the interest of parents,
  • there are many, many factors involved in this,
  • and we try to work on an individual basis
  • with each student in the high school.
  • Are there various kinds of tests which can be taken?
  • Yes, we have complete records in the high school
  • on each student.
  • We keep a complete record of all the tests
  • they have taken from elementary clear through high school.
  • We also have tests that they take in high school that
  • are all recorded.
  • We use this.
  • We also have teachers recommendations, various types
  • of information available for our use.
  • Dean McDonald, you're part of the team that
  • goes out to the joint high school college
  • visitations and talks with high school students about college.
  • Most other colleges do this as well.
  • What do you find to be the major concern of high school students
  • these days with regard to asking you questions about college?
  • It's interesting that you should mention this, Al,
  • because there has been a switch in the last four or five years.
  • At one time, this was back in the late '40s, primarily
  • the kids were interested in what kind of social life there was.
  • I find a real concerted effort on the part of students
  • to find out two or three things.
  • One, about the academic life.
  • Of course, they're all concerned about
  • whether they can be admitted to college.
  • And thirdly, they're concerned about the social life,
  • in other words, what goes on at your institution
  • in the extracurricular hours, or the hours beyond classes.
  • But in their interests, social life
  • is taking a secondary position now?
  • I would say so.
  • And I think we're finding is true on our campus as well
  • as many other campuses.
  • It's axiomatic that the first quarter
  • requires some pretty severe adjustments
  • on the part of a student.
  • What do these adjustments involve?
  • Well primarily, I think, in living.
  • In our particular institution now, we
  • have graduated from a commuters' college
  • to a residential college.
  • And the business of living in dormitories
  • or living groups where there are more than yourself
  • living in a room, as you do at home--
  • I'm talking about the students now.
  • They find that there is a real adjustment,
  • a give and take that they haven't had to have up to now,
  • unless they've had to fight their way with their brothers
  • and sisters along the way.
  • This is one of the major adjustment problems they have.
  • The other is that we get many high school
  • leaders that come here who were leaders in their own schools.
  • But when they get here, they find
  • that it's a real job to get into the social, political,
  • and other aspects of college living.
  • This is one other aspect of their adjustment.
  • And I think third, and primarily the basic one,
  • is the adjustment to the types of classes
  • they're going to be taking, particularly in our instance
  • the humanities class that is organized.
  • This is sometimes new to these kids, the idea
  • that more than one course would be incorporated
  • into a solid course and be presented by several lecturers
  • and then broken down into reading sections.
  • The biggest difference I found was that in, actually,
  • your classes as a whole, because in high school
  • I was used to everything just being more or less spoonfed
  • to me.
  • And now I'm in college, and I find
  • myself sitting in a lecture and having to take
  • notes for almost a whole hour.
  • And professors aren't conscious of that.
  • They have these certain facts that they
  • want to get across to you, and they
  • expect you to be able to pick these that out.
  • Well, it's very difficult just coming right straight from high
  • school to be able to do this, and I
  • think that's one of the biggest problems that I've had.
  • Learn to take good notes.
  • Right.
  • How do you learn to take good notes?
  • Well, I feel that you learn to take good notes by outlining
  • everything, because the professor has usually prepared
  • his talk according to an outline,
  • and if you can translate this back into an outline,
  • it'll be very easy to study your notes.
  • It's also logical.
  • In high school, you tend to go to school at 8:00 or 9:00,
  • and you get out of 3:15 or so.
  • It's not like that on campus.
  • Do you find that that causes a problem in the transition
  • from high school to college?
  • Well, it's a little different.
  • You find that you have so much more time.
  • You have, say, one hour between a class,
  • and you can go and go over your notes for the next class
  • or study and read.
  • I think this, too, tends to give you more time to waste.
  • If you go back to the dorm, then you waste the time in walking
  • and maybe chat awhile, and so it's important,
  • I think, to take advantage of every minute that you have.
  • What about extracurricular activities?
  • Well, myself, I've had a chance to be
  • an editor in The Collegian and have a lead in Mice and Men
  • this quarter.
  • And I know I always post an hour in the newspaper office.
  • Usually, I have two to three hours a day.
  • And then for the play, I assign two or three hours,
  • three or four nights of the week.
  • And then for my studies, I try to figure out
  • each week just how much studying I
  • have to do in the different subjects,
  • whether there's going to be a test or not,
  • and more or less make out a schedule
  • and then have it flexible enough so that I can
  • change if anything comes up.
  • Apparently in your case, the activities
  • don't interfere with the academic aspect?
  • No.
  • You find this generally to be true?
  • Quite a few students tend to, as soon as they get up to college,
  • to kind of let their hair down and just jump into almost
  • every activity they can find.
  • This tends to take away from their schoolwork.
  • More emphasis is put on who you can know, why you know them,
  • what they can do for you, rather than what you can learn.
  • You've got to guard against that?
  • Sometimes.
  • Now, I mean, you can be completely opposed
  • to that and just study, whereby you aren't known,
  • you don't know anything about the school.
  • If you talk to someone about the school,
  • the advantages of the school, they
  • couldn't tell you about them.
  • Oh, I believe that you get an education from both aspects.
  • Like Noel and Wes both said, you have to learn from studying,
  • and you have to learn from people.
  • And I think that you should be able to be
  • a well-rounded person, and be that in the sense
  • that you can participate in both things and you can compromise.
  • You can get the things that are important from your friends,
  • from your activities, and from your studying.
  • And being able to do them both is very important in college.
  • Especially your first year.
  • I think that being a freshman is a training period anyway,
  • and so I would feel that it would be better
  • to join too many clubs and then later find out, because you're
  • going to be finding out a lot of things
  • that you never knew before.
  • And so this is a good time to try it out.
  • I think it would be better to join too many than not enough.
  • So many that you flunk out the first quarter?
  • No, I think you should be able to realize
  • before you get to that point that you're in too many.
  • On the campus, I do find that there
  • is more of a trend towards social activities
  • that involve a little cultural aspect, lectures
  • and special art exhibits.
  • Our Viking Union does a good deal of work in this regard.
  • One of the problems is always, Al,
  • that a kid needs to get adjusted to academic life
  • first before he takes on more than he can chew
  • as far as social life is concerned, because it can lead
  • to some problems of having a great time while you're going
  • to college but flunking out because of the amount of time
  • you spend.
  • Well, but these social activities
  • do have a very real place in a college?
  • Oh, there's no question about that.
  • The old concept of the ivy covered
  • walls that are full of academe with the extracurricular
  • program as no part of the total college scene
  • is gone by the board.
  • And of course, this shifts in emphasis as time goes on.
  • The point here is you do have to learn to budget your time.
  • Is that right?
  • So important.
  • Budgeting of time is intrinsic for your education
  • because if you, like I mentioned before,
  • are just mainly concerned with one aspect of college,
  • social life or studies, you aren't
  • going to be a well-rounded individual.
  • And when you do get out into the big wide world,
  • you won't know which way to lean.
  • The student has to determine whether he
  • wants to go to the school near his home
  • or whether he wants to go outside
  • of town or, for that matter, outside of the state.
  • What are the advantages of, well,
  • it really gets down to living near ma and pa
  • or getting away from ma and pa?
  • This is essentially it.
  • A kid that goes to a college in his own hometown
  • is very often apt to run around with the same kids
  • that he ran around with in high school,
  • even if they're not in college.
  • This can have a very disconcerting effect.
  • I think the fact that a good percentage of the kids
  • would like to get away from mom and pop
  • while they're going to college has its advantages.
  • Of course, from a financial standpoint,
  • maybe spending a year or two at home
  • to find out whether you can do college
  • work without the additional expense of room and board away,
  • although I could talk quite some time on the fact
  • that it doesn't cost a great deal more
  • to send a person away to college,
  • assuming all other fees are the same,
  • than it is to stay at home.
  • One last question, and that is the old question
  • of large university versus small college.
  • What are the advantages and disadvantages of each kind?
  • Well, we can spend considerable time on this.
  • I don't think there's any question
  • that the smaller a college is, the more personal
  • they can be to the individual, the better the instructors can
  • get to know them, the smaller the classes might be.
  • Of course, it depends on the individual institution.
  • I know many large institutions that
  • have very good contact between faculty and students.
  • I know small colleges that don't do very much in this regard.
  • But by and large, the smaller classes
  • in the small institution, the more personal approach
  • from the professors, and the ability
  • to get to the professors-- at many of the larger
  • universities, for instance, you may see the professor lecturing
  • and have to get an appointment that would take you
  • two weeks to get in to see him in his classroom
  • or in his office.
  • There are always advantages to a particular type of institution,
  • but it depends primarily upon the individual.
  • Some kids can survive in a large university, other kids can't.
  • How much does it cost to go to college?
  • Well, that's quite a question.
  • Actually, the costs for college might
  • vary anywhere from about $800 or $900 a year
  • for a student going to a public college
  • and doing a conservative job of it to perhaps $2,800 or $3,000
  • per year for some of the colleges.
  • Now, does this include everything, including living
  • expenses and the whole works?
  • Generally speaking, the answer I've given
  • would be yes, that it does cover everything.
  • However, there are wide variations
  • in the amount that individual students will spend.
  • What about loans at colleges?
  • Most colleges have a loan program now.
  • This is a thing which seems to have
  • come upon us a great deal more in the few years than formerly.
  • We here at Western, for example, have a loan program
  • that involves two different possibilities, one
  • a regular student loan that we've
  • had for some years and another, the National Defense Education
  • Act loans.
  • How do those NDEA loans work?
  • The procedure for applying for these
  • is fairly standard from one college to another.
  • Mm-hmm.
  • And if a student makes an application
  • in the state of Washington on the regular uniform application
  • blank, which is used widely by all the colleges,
  • this can be applied as an application for a student
  • loan or an NDEA loan.
  • The amounts that are legal in this particular connection
  • are $1,000 maximum, but in fact, the average
  • is closer to $475 to $500 a year.
  • I see.
  • Would it be true to say that generally loans are
  • easier to come by and perhaps in larger
  • amounts at private colleges than at public colleges?
  • I think the answer in general would have to be yes.
  • What about scholarships and work grants,
  • are these fairly readily available at colleges?
  • Again, this varies widely from one college to another.
  • Most of the private colleges I think,
  • and from my standpoint somewhat unfortunately,
  • are able to offer a greater amount of money
  • in scholarships than would be true in the public colleges.
  • However, almost all colleges do have some sort
  • of scholarship program.
  • This oftentimes is weighted rather heavily toward freshmen,
  • and it tapers off pretty markedly
  • toward the junior and senior year.
  • This is something that a potential college student who
  • wants to know about scholarships and work grants,
  • he should find that information out
  • from the specific institution that he's interested in?
  • Yes, very definitely.
  • What about personal expenses, what part
  • do they play in the overall college expense program?
  • Well, this is probably the tackiest point
  • in the whole bundle, really.
  • We can predict pretty closely what
  • a student is going to spend for standard costs, room
  • and board, tuition, fees, even some incidental expenses,
  • the cost of books and that sort of thing.
  • But when it comes to the individual,
  • his personal tastes in what he does after hours
  • is going to determine the total cost.
  • And this, of course, is a highly individual matter.
  • And to this point of personal expenses,
  • that's where a budgeted college financial setup
  • with family and student could really go awry?
  • Very definitely, and frequently does.
  • And what about budgeting money?
  • Have any thoughts on that?
  • Well, I think that a college student should have a checking
  • account, and it's a good experience for him
  • to handle money so in later life he'll be able to--
  • You find there's a problem in the transition?
  • Did you handle a lot of money regularly
  • day to day in high school?
  • I've never handled a lot of money.
  • But no, I didn't handle very much money in high school.
  • But up here I think that most students get along with it.
  • I don't think many of them go into the hole.
  • I've found the easiest way is I have my money in a banking
  • account back home.
  • I have my parents send up a check each week for $5.00,
  • and $5.00 a week is more than enough if I budget my money.
  • For your personal expenses?
  • But if I don't budget my money, I'm
  • borrowing and paying off when I get my next check.
  • Would you all agree that it's nice to have a parent sending
  • a check every month?
  • I haven't.
  • You don't think so?
  • I like to be able to be on my own.
  • In a sense, it's kind of like being grown up.
  • And you are, you're becoming a young adult,
  • and just part of budgeting your money and your time
  • goes along with it.
  • And it's a challenge to me, and I
  • want to be able to prove that I can do it.
  • Here is a booklet called The Cost
  • of Four Years of College, which can be
  • made available to our viewers.
  • Is that a fairly accurate statement
  • of the expenses of almost all of the colleges in the United
  • States?
  • Yes, I've looked this booklet over before,
  • and I think that it is really quite an adequate summary
  • of the total cost picture from one college to another
  • and will give a student a basis for determining generally
  • what the expenses would be at a given institution.
  • I like particularly the part that's
  • on page four, in which they give the student an opportunity
  • to sketch out very briefly what his estimate would
  • be of his total budget for a given year.
  • Are these figures up to date?
  • There are some problems in that connection.
  • Most booklets of this kind run about a year behind, in that it
  • takes nearly that long to get the figures
  • collected initially.
  • Well, you mentioned that parents were an important factor.
  • Could you expand on that just a moment?
  • Yes, indeed.
  • We really welcome parents coming in.
  • Those of us in the counseling department are available.
  • Appointments can be made.
  • We certainly welcome them in here.
  • We would like to sit down and discuss the student's
  • possibilities and help in their planning and anything
  • that we can do.
  • Does the attitude of a parent with regard to his child going
  • to college make a difference?
  • Oh, yes.
  • I think so.
  • Very much so.
  • Parental encouragement at home, parental interest
  • is a very major factor in helping a young person decide
  • what ultimately he should do.
  • I notice this large book here.
  • I assume this is some of the material you
  • have available to help students with college.
  • What kind of materials do you have?
  • Oh, actually we have a great mass of material available.
  • We have bulletins and catalogs from dozens of colleges
  • in the department here.
  • We keep files on the colleges in the state
  • and also many of the colleges out of the state.
  • And what is this book here?
  • This is a new service that we subscribed to a few years ago.
  • It's a college admissions data service.
  • This book is renewed twice each year for us
  • to keep it very current, and--
  • It contains what kind of information?
  • It contains all the information concerning
  • entrance requirements, the test needed, the admission
  • procedures, expenses of college.
  • Every bit of information--
  • Every bit of information in this book is on two pages.
  • It's very rapid to work with, and--
  • Does it contain scholarship information?
  • Yes, it also contains-- each school
  • has a complete section on financial aids available.
  • And you have complete information here
  • to help students going after scholarships and work grants?
  • Yes.
  • The types of help that you can give a student in planning
  • for college, most high schools provide
  • these kinds of counseling--
  • I think so, today.
  • We feel fortunate here in the staff
  • that we have and the information available,
  • but we have considerable amounts of information in this office
  • on many of the schools.
  • We have it in all of the schools in the state
  • and many of the schools in other states.
  • If we do not have it, we have information
  • that we can give parents or students as
  • to where they can very easily receive information
  • of this type.
  • With regard to admission requirements,
  • I think that colleges generally throughout the nation
  • are stiffening these to some degree.
  • How do they go about it, and what
  • problems does this pose for a potential college student?
  • Well, first of all, I can tell you
  • that it proposes a problem for colleges because--
  • I think this is true at Washington State and most
  • of the colleges in this area that with the increase
  • in admission requirements, it seems that our freshman
  • classes are becoming more and more predominantly women.
  • This is one aspect of it.
  • But essentially, when a college looks
  • for the establishment of admission standards, what
  • they're primarily concerned with are several aspects.
  • I don't think any college uses one criteria.
  • But they're looking for great achievement in high school,
  • and this, incidentally, is the best single indicator
  • of success in college.
  • They're looking for test information,
  • and practically every school in this state
  • looks to the Washington Pre- College Differential Battery.
  • Then they're looking for, to a certain extent,
  • recommendations from the counselors and the like.
  • These are essentially what most colleges look to for admission.
  • What is the purpose of stiffening these requirements?
  • Well, I think it basically came up in most colleges because
  • of the attrition rate at the end of the first year,
  • and this was reaching amazing proportions.
  • About 50% of the freshman classes of many colleges
  • were not around for the second year.
  • Flunked out?
  • Not necessarily all flunked out, but a good percentage of them
  • had not achieved what we would call academic success,
  • or had, at our particular institution, a 2.0 grade
  • average at the end of the first year.
  • Marriage, and many of these other things,
  • and financial problems caused people to leave school,
  • but we were very concerned, as are most colleges.
  • Then of course, you have to look at it from the standpoint
  • that if you have difficulty in determining
  • who is going to be admitted, certainly the ones that
  • have proven themselves.
  • One hears these days a great deal about closing of college
  • doors, about the lessening of opportunity to go to college,
  • and nearly everything that one hears is true.
  • We know, for instance, that in many, many colleges
  • before this decade is out, enrollments will double.
  • We know that there will be new colleges starting,
  • as there have recently been new colleges and universities begun
  • over the nation.
  • In spite of these growing enrollments and the institution
  • of new colleges and universities,
  • there are going to be many difficulties
  • in the way of students getting into the college
  • that they particularly choose.
  • The colleges themselves are facing
  • a number of difficulties.
  • They are finding it hard to recruit the able
  • staff that they all want.
  • They are finding it hard to keep up with their building
  • program, to get enough dormitory rooms and classrooms
  • and all of the other kind of specialized space
  • which is necessary in the modern college.
  • Private colleges are having their difficulties
  • in boosting their endowments.
  • Publicly-supported colleges are having their troubles
  • in getting enough money from their state legislatures
  • to continue their growth in quality and quantity.
  • What should the student do, we hear the question asked,
  • in order the best to prepare himself
  • for college, if indeed he is thinking of going to college?
  • The answer to this is complex.
  • If I had to give one answer, I think it would be,
  • work on your language.
  • Improve your language skills.
  • Become a good reader, an avid reader.
  • Practice your writing of the English language.
  • A great number of the students who come to college
  • but don't make the grade fail because their English is not
  • up to mark.
  • Different colleges suit different needs.
  • I think that the choice of a college
  • is a serious one, one that deserves a student's best
  • attention.
  • It is necessary, I think, both to know oneself
  • and to know one's college to make the best possible choice.