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WEBVTT kvos special 36 03 s69

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Two Negro senators before that.

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OK.

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This is Julian Bond, the
27-year-old legislator

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from the state of
Georgia, who was denied

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his seat by his colleagues.

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And finally, after about
two years of battling,

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only this January managed to,
through the US Supreme Court,

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gain his seat in the
Georgia legislature.

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I'm Duane Trecker.

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With me is Dr. Manfred
Vernon, Chairman

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of the Political Science
Department at Western

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Washington State College.

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We are very happy to have
you with us here Mr. Bond.

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I know that you are
the spokesman of many,

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for many causes and concerns.

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Your interests are
manifold in that they

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touch foreign affairs, as
well as domestic affairs.

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And since you are very clearly
identified with certain ideas

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as far as Vietnam is concerned,
with your kind permission,

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let us start first on this.

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And perhaps very
briefly might you

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suggest how you feel about
the matter of Vietnam.

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Well, my position is that
the things that the United

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States does overseas are related
to its behavior towards people

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inside the country,
and that there's

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a relationship between
what I consider

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our aggressive
behavior in Vietnam

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and the treatment of minority
groups inside the United

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States.

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But taken separately,
both are wrong.

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And taken together,
they're even wronger.

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I imagine that, or
rather I'm of the opinion

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that our involvement
in Vietnam is wrong.

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It's illegal, it's immoral, it's
un-Christian, it's un-Buddist,

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it's un-Jewish,
it's un-Catholic.

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We ought not be there.

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We ought to disengage ourselves.

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And that there will never be
decent treatment for minority

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peoples in this
country until we begin

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to concentrate on freedom
and justice and equality

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for those at home,
and stop worrying

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about puppet dictatorships
and despotic governments

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in Southeast Asia.

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In other words, you
make it a special point

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of identifying
yourself as a Negro

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with the stand against Vietnam.

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Right, right.

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I think you can be white and
be against the war in Vietnam.

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That's right, but
I mean, you make

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it a special point as a Negro.

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Similar observations, of course,
have been made by others.

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And I think one of the last ones
would have been the Reverend

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Martin Luther King.

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Right.

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Who has come out
in such a fashion.

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On the other hand,
you would also

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probably say that there
are also many Negroes who

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would not share your view.

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No, certainly there are a great
many who don't hold my position

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and who don't hold
Dr. King's position.

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Part of what I try to
do is convince them

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that they're wrong
and I'm right.

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Yes.

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No, as you can see
in the United States,

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there are certain people
for, I would think probably

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that's a majority of the
people of the United States

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are in support of the
United States government.

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And a minority
probably opposed to it.

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Would you say that that
sort of observation

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also would hold true for
the American Negroes?

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Well, I'm not so
sure that's correct.

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I think there are a
majority of people

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in this country who just have
no feelings toward it one way

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or the other.

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They're apathetic
toward their government.

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They're apathetic toward
what their government does

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domestically, as well
as in foreign affairs.

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They feel no relationship to
what their government does.

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They feel they have
no control over it.

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And that a small minority
of people in this country

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favor a vigorous
prosecution of the war.

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And a small majority favors
a withdrawal, a deescalation,

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a phasing out of the war.

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And in between these
two groups, there's

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a large body of Americans who
are completely apolitical.

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They have no feelings about
the war one way or the other.

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Unless they've been
touched by it personally.

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Unless they have a
son fighting there.

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Unless they have a
father, a husband.

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Unless it touches them
in some personal way,

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they have no feelings toward
it one way or the other.

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Are you saying that
you don't advocate

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just an immediate
unilateral pullout,

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but you said phasing
down of the war?

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No, I'm saying that there are
among the anti-war people,

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there are different positions
about the way to end the war.

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Mine is to get out, to leave.

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We should have left yesterday.

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And lacking that, we
should leave tomorrow.

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But how would you answer to
the people you leave behind?

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Leave behind?

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Well, which people?

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The Marshall Ky?

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Ky.

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I don't think he's
due an answer.

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I mean, the man has, is
a puppet, is a dictator.

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If he's worried, if he's
in fear of his life,

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I think we could
take him with us.

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Perhaps we could set him up in
some other country all his own.

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But I don't feel we have
the responsibility to him

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that we have to the hundreds and
thousands of ordinary citizens

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in Vietnam who are victims of
both sides in this war, who

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are being killed and murdered
on every occasion by both sides

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in this war.

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I think our responsibility is
to them and not to the Marshall

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Ky's.

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Now when you say that we should
pull out first to begin with,

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you call Ky a puppet,
an American puppet.

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You say that.

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Then you talk about pulling out.

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And since you just
mentioned there's also

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many people, victims
on both sides,

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would you then suggest
the same to happen

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that the North Vietnamese and
the Viet Cong also pull out?

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Well, they can't pull
out of their own country.

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See, we're in two
different situations.

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We are the outsiders.

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The Americans are the invaders.

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We are the ones who have come
from another part of the globe

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into their part of the globe.

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You can't, by any stretch
of the imagination,

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make a correlation
between our position there

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and the position of the forces
of the National Liberation

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Front, who are
largely Southerners.

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Or the position of
the regular army

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forces of North Vietnam, who are
after all, Vietnamese people.

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They speak, they have
a common language.

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But they've crossed the national
border though, haven't they?

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What sort of national
border is drawn

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at Michigan State University?

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I mean, there's no
national border.

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That's one country.

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Now we have a similar
situation, however,

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in North and South Korea.

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Exactly.

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And East and West Germany.

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Right.

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How about that?

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Well, there's
again, a difference

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between a Chinese
soldier coming from China

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into North Korea and an American
soldier coming from the United

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States of America, or
rather than a South Korean

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coming from South
Korea into North Korea.

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I see a tremendous
difference in that.

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In other words, you wouldn't.

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I see one as a citizen of
one part of this divided

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country saying, I
want unification

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or I want a
togetherness, I don't

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like a political situation,
and the other part,

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I want to change it.

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And the other situation is
an outsider, an invader,

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an aggressor coming
in and saying,

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I don't like what goes on
here and I want to change it.

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I don't think the two
situations are exactly alike.

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The Chinese invaded North Korea.

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The United States
has invaded Vietnam.

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And what about the
Russians in East Germany?

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Right, the Russians did in
Hungary exactly the same thing

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that we are doing in Vietnam.

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They are trying to put down.

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They put down a
legitimate revolt

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on behalf of the
people of Hungary.

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And we are trying to put down
a legitimate revolt on the part

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of the people of Vietnam.

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Did the Russians do
that at the request

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of the constitutive government?

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Well, such as it was.

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And I can imagine you could
say that we are doing it

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as a result at
the request of one

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of the constitutive governments.

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I say, I'm saying the
Russians were wrong.

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Just as we are wrong
in this instance.

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That the Russians having done
it is no excuse for us doing it.

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But you see the coming
back to the example,

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you would then tolerate if the
North Vietnamese would today

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invade South, the North Koreans
would invade South Korea?

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No, I don't, I don't
tolerate invasions by,

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or violent uprising
by any group of people

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against any other group
of people for any means.

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But I'm more tolerable,
if you can not

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tolerate and be more tolerable.

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I'd be much more
tolerable of a citizen

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of one part of a divided
country going to another part

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than I would be a person who
is completely an outsider.

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The Chinese in that equation
were completely without right,

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without correctness, to enter
themselves into that situation.

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Just as the Americans
find themselves

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in the Chinese
position in Vietnam.

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I do not know whether you
have just read last night

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and this morning's
paper, but there

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is a report that 16 senators,
to wit Senator Fulbright

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and Senator Morse
and Senator McGovern

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and whoever they may
be have been described

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as adopting the war, and have
come out with a statement

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to Ho Chi Minh
suggesting that he better

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reconsider the whole
matter and give in

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to the concept of
a negotiated peace.

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Otherwise, America
will not move out

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and that they will back
this sort of concept.

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How do you feel about
this development?

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Well, I think their phrase was
that the United States would

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not leave until there's
an honorable peace.

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Every end of a war is a
negotiated settlement.

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If you and I fight
and I defeat you,

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we negotiate the terms of
the cessation of hostilities.

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If we fight to a
stalemate, we still

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negotiate a settlement
of hostilities.

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If the United
States withdraws, I

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imagine there's got to be
some negotiation of how it's

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going to take place, at one
rate under, what conditions

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and so forth.

00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:30.065 align:middle line:84%
My position is a little advanced
of those men in the Senate

00:09:30.065 --> 00:09:31.440 align:middle line:84%
and the House of
Representatives,

00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:34.003 align:middle line:84%
that I'm saying that the
United States ought to leave.

00:09:34.003 --> 00:09:35.420 align:middle line:84%
But I think it's
really ridiculous

00:09:35.420 --> 00:09:37.760 align:middle line:84%
to ask Ho Chi Minh to
negotiate with the United

00:09:37.760 --> 00:09:38.960 align:middle line:90%
States of America.

00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:40.910 align:middle line:84%
I mean, it's as though
I came into your home

00:09:40.910 --> 00:09:44.190 align:middle line:84%
and beat you up, and then
asked you to negotiate with me.

00:09:44.190 --> 00:09:46.600 align:middle line:84%
You shouldn't negotiate with
me, you should throw me out.

00:09:46.600 --> 00:09:47.850 align:middle line:90%
Of course, then you stay home.

00:09:47.850 --> 00:09:54.490 align:middle line:84%
Then I see if they accept your
idea, that Vietnam is a house.

00:09:54.490 --> 00:09:57.860 align:middle line:84%
Then at best, Ho Chi Minh
lives in one apartment

00:09:57.860 --> 00:10:00.120 align:middle line:84%
and I'm entering
another apartment.

00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:02.390 align:middle line:84%
And so all I would
suggest I'm here

00:10:02.390 --> 00:10:04.490 align:middle line:84%
because somebody's
asked me, why don't you

00:10:04.490 --> 00:10:06.280 align:middle line:90%
stay in your apartment also.

00:10:06.280 --> 00:10:09.620 align:middle line:84%
I don't know whether that's
what makes sense to you.

00:10:09.620 --> 00:10:12.205 align:middle line:84%
It makes a little bit of
sense, but not a great deal.

00:10:12.205 --> 00:10:13.580 align:middle line:84%
And the reason
that it doesn't is

00:10:13.580 --> 00:10:15.920 align:middle line:84%
because first, I don't hold
that there are two apartments.

00:10:15.920 --> 00:10:17.410 align:middle line:84%
I hold that there's
one big living room

00:10:17.410 --> 00:10:18.500 align:middle line:90%
and that we're all in it.

00:10:18.500 --> 00:10:20.500 align:middle line:84%
That are both Ho Chi Minh
and Marshall Ky in it.

00:10:20.500 --> 00:10:23.060 align:middle line:84%
In fact, Marshall
Ky is from Hanoi,

00:10:23.060 --> 00:10:25.390 align:middle line:84%
and probably he ought
to go back up there.

00:10:25.390 --> 00:10:28.310 align:middle line:84%
He's probably afraid
for his life if he did.

00:10:28.310 --> 00:10:31.070 align:middle line:84%
But what I hold, is
that it's one country.

00:10:31.070 --> 00:10:33.020 align:middle line:84%
That a group of people
who lived in the south,

00:10:33.020 --> 00:10:35.312 align:middle line:84%
who were indigenous to the
south, who were southerners,

00:10:35.312 --> 00:10:37.630 align:middle line:84%
began a revolt against
what they considered

00:10:37.630 --> 00:10:39.528 align:middle line:84%
to be an undemocratic
and despotic government

00:10:39.528 --> 00:10:40.070 align:middle line:90%
in the south.

00:10:40.070 --> 00:10:42.770 align:middle line:84%
They began to receive aid
from people in the north,

00:10:42.770 --> 00:10:45.050 align:middle line:84%
and that aid is still
fairly minute in comparison

00:10:45.050 --> 00:10:47.720 align:middle line:84%
to the amounts of aid that
come from the other side.

00:10:47.720 --> 00:10:49.430 align:middle line:84%
And then it still
retains a great many

00:10:49.430 --> 00:10:52.260 align:middle line:84%
of the characteristics
of a civil war.

00:10:52.260 --> 00:10:54.380 align:middle line:84%
It's exactly the
same characteristics

00:10:54.380 --> 00:10:57.560 align:middle line:84%
of our Revolutionary War
when the French gave us

00:10:57.560 --> 00:11:00.110 align:middle line:90%
a great deal of help.

00:11:00.110 --> 00:11:02.403 align:middle line:84%
Without whose help,
we would not have won.

00:11:02.403 --> 00:11:04.820 align:middle line:84%
Like our civil war, when the
northern part of this country

00:11:04.820 --> 00:11:07.490 align:middle line:84%
invaded the southern
part, it's a dispute

00:11:07.490 --> 00:11:11.440 align:middle line:84%
between two forces within
one geophysical area,

00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:13.190 align:middle line:84%
and ought to be settled,
I think, by them,

00:11:13.190 --> 00:11:15.880 align:middle line:84%
without interference from
those on the outside.

00:11:15.880 --> 00:11:22.120 align:middle line:84%
Now war, of course,
has been with mankind.

00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:24.690 align:middle line:84%
All of us hope
that in your time,

00:11:24.690 --> 00:11:29.170 align:middle line:90%
mankind can live without war.

00:11:29.170 --> 00:11:34.280 align:middle line:84%
So I have been wondering,
because obviously, you're

00:11:34.280 --> 00:11:37.010 align:middle line:84%
not the only one in this country
to have a stand that you just

00:11:37.010 --> 00:11:38.300 align:middle line:90%
have developed.

00:11:38.300 --> 00:11:42.830 align:middle line:84%
I am wondering as to the
selectivity with which

00:11:42.830 --> 00:11:45.330 align:middle line:84%
some people speak
about war, there

00:11:45.330 --> 00:11:51.050 align:middle line:84%
seem to be a heavy concern with
some of the injustices done

00:11:51.050 --> 00:11:52.730 align:middle line:90%
as the United States.

00:11:52.730 --> 00:11:55.700 align:middle line:84%
People in the case
of Vietnam, we

00:11:55.700 --> 00:11:59.190 align:middle line:84%
don't talk so much about
Korea, even in retrospect.

00:11:59.190 --> 00:12:01.200 align:middle line:84%
But we do not talk
actually about other wars.

00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:05.690 align:middle line:84%
For instance,
today when you feel

00:12:05.690 --> 00:12:08.960 align:middle line:84%
indignant about the
American presence

00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:12.050 align:middle line:84%
in the case of South
Vietnam, do you

00:12:12.050 --> 00:12:16.220 align:middle line:84%
feel indignant, for instance,
as to the presence of the United

00:12:16.220 --> 00:12:21.238 align:middle line:84%
Arab Republic or Saudi Arabia
in a country of a third nation,

00:12:21.238 --> 00:12:21.780 align:middle line:90%
namely Yemen?

00:12:21.780 --> 00:12:22.680 align:middle line:90%
Does that bother you?

00:12:22.680 --> 00:12:23.490 align:middle line:90%
Certainly it does.

00:12:23.490 --> 00:12:25.550 align:middle line:90%
But let me make this one point.

00:12:25.550 --> 00:12:27.700 align:middle line:84%
I live in the United
States of America.

00:12:27.700 --> 00:12:29.720 align:middle line:84%
And I feel when my
country does something,

00:12:29.720 --> 00:12:32.900 align:middle line:84%
if it does something I
approve of or disagree with,

00:12:32.900 --> 00:12:35.030 align:middle line:84%
it nevertheless
does it in my name,

00:12:35.030 --> 00:12:37.100 align:middle line:84%
because I'm one of the
citizens of this country.

00:12:37.100 --> 00:12:39.560 align:middle line:84%
And I feel a greater
responsibility

00:12:39.560 --> 00:12:41.510 align:middle line:84%
toward setting my
country straight

00:12:41.510 --> 00:12:44.416 align:middle line:84%
than I do toward setting the
North Vietnamese straight.

00:12:44.416 --> 00:12:46.291 align:middle line:84%
Now no one can deny that
the North Vietnamese

00:12:46.291 --> 00:12:48.040 align:middle line:90%
engage in acts of terror.

00:12:48.040 --> 00:12:49.900 align:middle line:84%
I mean, that's a matter
of public record.

00:12:49.900 --> 00:12:53.692 align:middle line:84%
But is it my place to
say it's OK for the US

00:12:53.692 --> 00:12:55.900 align:middle line:84%
to do the same sort of thing
just because they do it?

00:12:55.900 --> 00:12:58.960 align:middle line:84%
No, I think my place is to say
they commit acts of terror.

00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:01.120 align:middle line:84%
I realize it, I don't
like it, it's wrong.

00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:04.240 align:middle line:84%
But my country does things that
are wrong and it's my country,

00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:06.280 align:middle line:84%
it's my job to set
my country straight.

00:13:06.280 --> 00:13:10.690 align:middle line:84%
Now of course, there are again,
as I have suggested before,

00:13:10.690 --> 00:13:15.220 align:middle line:84%
a number of people talking
against the injustice

00:13:15.220 --> 00:13:17.010 align:middle line:90%
of their country.

00:13:17.010 --> 00:13:23.230 align:middle line:84%
You, as a spokesman, people
feel quite emphatic that

00:13:23.230 --> 00:13:27.010 align:middle line:84%
because of the involvement
of this country in Vietnam,

00:13:27.010 --> 00:13:29.860 align:middle line:84%
the problems of the
Negro cannot be solved.

00:13:29.860 --> 00:13:32.630 align:middle line:84%
In other words, the
solution of that problem

00:13:32.630 --> 00:13:35.740 align:middle line:84%
will depend on the moving out
of the United States forces

00:13:35.740 --> 00:13:39.110 align:middle line:90%
and government from Vietnam.

00:13:39.110 --> 00:13:42.820 align:middle line:84%
Do you sincerely feel
that as far as the United

00:13:42.820 --> 00:13:45.370 align:middle line:84%
States is concerned,
I'm talking now

00:13:45.370 --> 00:13:47.200 align:middle line:90%
about the federal government.

00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:49.415 align:middle line:84%
I'm talking about the
government in other words,

00:13:49.415 --> 00:13:50.290 align:middle line:90%
the country at large.

00:13:50.290 --> 00:13:52.270 align:middle line:84%
I'm not talking
about your home state

00:13:52.270 --> 00:13:54.940 align:middle line:84%
Georgia or Alabama
in the deep south.

00:13:54.940 --> 00:13:58.580 align:middle line:90%


00:13:58.580 --> 00:14:02.230 align:middle line:84%
Would you say that progress
has been made or not?

00:14:02.230 --> 00:14:03.810 align:middle line:84%
Certainly progress
has been made.

00:14:03.810 --> 00:14:06.648 align:middle line:84%
But I look at the figures
of expenditures for;

00:14:06.648 --> 00:14:08.440 align:middle line:84%
how many people are
there in South Vietnam?

00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:10.240 align:middle line:90%
13 million?

00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:13.090 align:middle line:84%
There are 15 million
Negroes in this country.

00:14:13.090 --> 00:14:14.840 align:middle line:84%
Certainly not all of
them live in poverty.

00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:15.920 align:middle line:90%
Some of them live quite well.

00:14:15.920 --> 00:14:17.870 align:middle line:84%
But they're certainly more
than 15 million poor people

00:14:17.870 --> 00:14:18.715 align:middle line:90%
in this country.

00:14:18.715 --> 00:14:23.990 align:middle line:84%
Now we spend $27 billion
or more a year in Vietnam

00:14:23.990 --> 00:14:27.800 align:middle line:84%
for 13 million Vietnamese
people with whose condition

00:14:27.800 --> 00:14:30.960 align:middle line:84%
I sympathize, but we
spend less than 1/12

00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:35.450 align:middle line:84%
of that to alleviate the
conditions of the more than 15

00:14:35.450 --> 00:14:38.570 align:middle line:84%
million poor people in the
United States of America.

00:14:38.570 --> 00:14:43.400 align:middle line:84%
We have dispatched to Vietnam
350,000 or more federal troops.

00:14:43.400 --> 00:14:46.410 align:middle line:84%
Army, members of the armed
forces, the Navy, the Air Force

00:14:46.410 --> 00:14:48.980 align:middle line:84%
and Marines, and hesitate
to send one or two

00:14:48.980 --> 00:14:51.560 align:middle line:84%
federal registrars into my state
or another part of the Deep

00:14:51.560 --> 00:14:55.385 align:middle line:84%
South to encourage American
citizens not to be afraid

00:14:55.385 --> 00:14:56.760 align:middle line:84%
if they want to
register to vote.

00:14:56.760 --> 00:14:57.740 align:middle line:90%
I think that's hypocrisy.

00:14:57.740 --> 00:14:59.450 align:middle line:84%
I think it's hypocrisy
of the worst kind.

00:14:59.450 --> 00:15:01.890 align:middle line:84%
I think my government
is treating me unfairly,

00:15:01.890 --> 00:15:03.650 align:middle line:84%
that it's expressing
a concern for people

00:15:03.650 --> 00:15:05.750 align:middle line:84%
who are millions of
miles, thousands of miles

00:15:05.750 --> 00:15:06.700 align:middle line:90%
away from it.

00:15:06.700 --> 00:15:09.020 align:middle line:84%
People who have not done
any harm to my country

00:15:09.020 --> 00:15:11.750 align:middle line:84%
and is not attacking my enemies,
who are very much right here

00:15:11.750 --> 00:15:12.900 align:middle line:90%
at home.

00:15:12.900 --> 00:15:18.860 align:middle line:84%
Now perhaps this sounds
too rough a question,

00:15:18.860 --> 00:15:22.700 align:middle line:84%
wouldn't you say, for instance,
a very thing that we sit here

00:15:22.700 --> 00:15:25.670 align:middle line:84%
or that you have been elected
by the citizens of the state

00:15:25.670 --> 00:15:29.900 align:middle line:84%
of Georgia, that the Supreme
Court of the United States

00:15:29.900 --> 00:15:35.180 align:middle line:84%
rightly, I emphasize, got
you into the possession

00:15:35.180 --> 00:15:37.570 align:middle line:84%
of your rights
and powers, namely

00:15:37.570 --> 00:15:40.670 align:middle line:84%
to be rightful
representative in the state

00:15:40.670 --> 00:15:43.160 align:middle line:84%
legislature of your
state, wouldn't you

00:15:43.160 --> 00:15:47.630 align:middle line:84%
see that sort of this would be
indicative of a rather generous

00:15:47.630 --> 00:15:48.703 align:middle line:90%
attitude of this country?

00:15:48.703 --> 00:15:50.120 align:middle line:84%
No, I don't think
it was generous,

00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:51.800 align:middle line:90%
I think it was correct.

00:15:51.800 --> 00:15:54.620 align:middle line:84%
Listen, if I, if you do
something that's correct to me,

00:15:54.620 --> 00:15:56.870 align:middle line:84%
if you do something that's
decent and honest and right

00:15:56.870 --> 00:16:00.020 align:middle line:84%
to me, I don't think you do it
because you're being generous.

00:16:00.020 --> 00:16:02.415 align:middle line:84%
I think you're doing it because
you know that it's right.

00:16:02.415 --> 00:16:04.790 align:middle line:84%
And you're not being generous
to me, you're being decent.

00:16:04.790 --> 00:16:06.260 align:middle line:84%
You're being honest,
you're being correct,

00:16:06.260 --> 00:16:07.340 align:middle line:90%
and you're being fair.

00:16:07.340 --> 00:16:11.060 align:middle line:84%
That's what I want my
country to be, not generous.

00:16:11.060 --> 00:16:12.650 align:middle line:84%
I won my case in
the Supreme Court

00:16:12.650 --> 00:16:14.568 align:middle line:84%
because my position
was the correct one,

00:16:14.568 --> 00:16:16.610 align:middle line:84%
not because the Supreme
Court was generous to me.

00:16:16.610 --> 00:16:19.250 align:middle line:84%
Certainly, things are better
for Negroes in this country

00:16:19.250 --> 00:16:21.180 align:middle line:84%
today than they were
a few years ago.

00:16:21.180 --> 00:16:23.900 align:middle line:84%
The fact remains that Negroes
have been in the United States

00:16:23.900 --> 00:16:26.520 align:middle line:90%
for 400 years.

00:16:26.520 --> 00:16:30.410 align:middle line:84%
And we are still not treated
as are other people who

00:16:30.410 --> 00:16:34.008 align:middle line:84%
come to this country from
European countries who step off

00:16:34.008 --> 00:16:36.550 align:middle line:84%
the boat, and as they step off
the boat, they're given a job.

00:16:36.550 --> 00:16:39.747 align:middle line:84%
It's very irritating to me
that a large population.

00:16:39.747 --> 00:16:51.675 align:middle line:90%


00:16:51.675 --> 00:16:52.669 align:middle line:90%
When you're not.

00:16:52.669 --> 00:16:56.148 align:middle line:90%


00:16:56.148 --> 00:16:59.280 align:middle line:84%
Mr. Bond, it's pretty
well known that you

00:16:59.280 --> 00:17:02.430 align:middle line:84%
oppose the conscription
of young American men

00:17:02.430 --> 00:17:06.300 align:middle line:84%
to fight in Vietnam, and I
guess oppose conscription

00:17:06.300 --> 00:17:08.170 align:middle line:90%
of young American men.

00:17:08.170 --> 00:17:10.990 align:middle line:84%
How do you feel about the
new administration's proposal

00:17:10.990 --> 00:17:11.950 align:middle line:90%
on the draft?

00:17:11.950 --> 00:17:14.470 align:middle line:84%
Well, I oppose conscription
not just for Vietnam,

00:17:14.470 --> 00:17:17.119 align:middle line:84%
but for the military generally
for a couple of reasons.

00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:19.329 align:middle line:84%
First, because it's
just obviously unfair.

00:17:19.329 --> 00:17:22.540 align:middle line:84%
It sounds laughable,
but it's unfair to men,

00:17:22.540 --> 00:17:25.780 align:middle line:84%
because it discriminates
against men in favor of women.

00:17:25.780 --> 00:17:28.660 align:middle line:84%
I don't see any reason
why women should not

00:17:28.660 --> 00:17:30.280 align:middle line:84%
be drafted into
the United States

00:17:30.280 --> 00:17:31.960 align:middle line:84%
Army or the Marines,
the Air Force

00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:34.357 align:middle line:84%
and the other military
agencies in this country.

00:17:34.357 --> 00:17:35.440 align:middle line:90%
They're certainly capable.

00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:36.970 align:middle line:84%
Some of them are
much larger than I

00:17:36.970 --> 00:17:39.595 align:middle line:84%
am, and certainly much stronger,
and probably a great deal more

00:17:39.595 --> 00:17:40.870 align:middle line:90%
warlike.

00:17:40.870 --> 00:17:42.730 align:middle line:84%
Additionally, it
obviously discriminates

00:17:42.730 --> 00:17:45.262 align:middle line:84%
against the poorer educated
members of our society,

00:17:45.262 --> 00:17:47.470 align:middle line:84%
against Negroes and other
members of minority groups,

00:17:47.470 --> 00:17:49.690 align:middle line:84%
against poor young
white men who don't

00:17:49.690 --> 00:17:53.230 align:middle line:84%
have the educational
qualifications to escape

00:17:53.230 --> 00:17:54.400 align:middle line:90%
the draft.

00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:57.610 align:middle line:84%
Secondly, because of the nature
of the needs of the armed

00:17:57.610 --> 00:17:59.510 align:middle line:84%
forces, it always
will discriminate.

00:17:59.510 --> 00:18:01.510 align:middle line:84%
There are more young men
in this country who are

00:18:01.510 --> 00:18:03.640 align:middle line:90%
eligible than there are needed.

00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:06.923 align:middle line:84%
So that in a typical town,
Jon Jones will have to go

00:18:06.923 --> 00:18:09.340 align:middle line:84%
and his neighbor Bobby Smith,
who lives across the street,

00:18:09.340 --> 00:18:10.090 align:middle line:90%
will not.

00:18:10.090 --> 00:18:10.780 align:middle line:90%
That's unfair.

00:18:10.780 --> 00:18:13.180 align:middle line:84%
It's unfair to place that
burden on John Jones and not

00:18:13.180 --> 00:18:14.800 align:middle line:90%
to place it on Bobby Smith.

00:18:14.800 --> 00:18:16.300 align:middle line:84%
I'd like to see the
draft eliminated

00:18:16.300 --> 00:18:18.640 align:middle line:84%
completely and replaced
with a volunteer army.

00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:20.350 align:middle line:84%
A highly paid army,
an army that would

00:18:20.350 --> 00:18:23.580 align:middle line:84%
be attractive to a
young man as a career.

00:18:23.580 --> 00:18:26.200 align:middle line:84%
An army that I think, and I
think the Pentagon thinks so

00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:30.410 align:middle line:84%
also, could function if
not as well, if not better,

00:18:30.410 --> 00:18:33.270 align:middle line:84%
than the present one
that we have now.

00:18:33.270 --> 00:18:37.600 align:middle line:84%
But if there would be an end
to discrimination in the draft,

00:18:37.600 --> 00:18:39.980 align:middle line:84%
for instance, the
college student

00:18:39.980 --> 00:18:42.280 align:middle line:84%
would be as draftable
as anyone else.

00:18:42.280 --> 00:18:43.697 align:middle line:84%
Would that make
more sense to you?

00:18:43.697 --> 00:18:45.613 align:middle line:84%
It'd make a little more
sense, but it wouldn't

00:18:45.613 --> 00:18:46.750 align:middle line:90%
make completely good sense.

00:18:46.750 --> 00:18:48.730 align:middle line:84%
You see, there's still
the discrimination

00:18:48.730 --> 00:18:51.400 align:middle line:84%
that comes when a
small number is needed

00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:53.680 align:middle line:90%
and a large number is available.

00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:54.180 align:middle line:90%
Yes.

00:18:54.180 --> 00:18:56.410 align:middle line:84%
That's just wrong, and
can only be eliminated

00:18:56.410 --> 00:18:59.530 align:middle line:84%
by either drafting everybody,
which certainly is no answer,

00:18:59.530 --> 00:19:01.070 align:middle line:90%
or by stop drafting anybody.

00:19:01.070 --> 00:19:04.230 align:middle line:84%
Of course, you imply
one way or the other,

00:19:04.230 --> 00:19:07.640 align:middle line:84%
that there seemed to be a need
for armed forces for the time

00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:08.140 align:middle line:90%
being.

00:19:08.140 --> 00:19:10.787 align:middle line:84%
Well, no, I don't think so, but
I think the country thinks so.

00:19:10.787 --> 00:19:12.370 align:middle line:84%
It's not about to
get rid of the Army.

00:19:12.370 --> 00:19:14.590 align:middle line:84%
So given the fact that
you have to have the Army,

00:19:14.590 --> 00:19:18.730 align:middle line:84%
it ought to be the best and
most decent and fairest army.

00:19:18.730 --> 00:19:20.560 align:middle line:84%
I was wondering,
since we had talked

00:19:20.560 --> 00:19:25.070 align:middle line:84%
about several domestic
matters, whether we could talk

00:19:25.070 --> 00:19:27.040 align:middle line:84%
about what perhaps
some people might

00:19:27.040 --> 00:19:29.390 align:middle line:84%
consider a new
phenomenon, namely

00:19:29.390 --> 00:19:31.540 align:middle line:90%
the development of black power.

00:19:31.540 --> 00:19:35.850 align:middle line:84%
I wonder if you wouldn't mind to
make some observation on this.

00:19:35.850 --> 00:19:38.140 align:middle line:84%
No, it seems to me it's
a legitimate desire

00:19:38.140 --> 00:19:39.850 align:middle line:84%
on the part of Negroes
in this country

00:19:39.850 --> 00:19:42.550 align:middle line:84%
to achieve political,
economic and social power.

00:19:42.550 --> 00:19:44.860 align:middle line:84%
Other groups in this
country have had it.

00:19:44.860 --> 00:19:47.890 align:middle line:84%
The Irish Americans in
Massachusetts for one instance.

00:19:47.890 --> 00:19:50.230 align:middle line:84%
Italian-Americans
in New York might

00:19:50.230 --> 00:19:52.540 align:middle line:90%
be said to have Italian power.

00:19:52.540 --> 00:19:54.680 align:middle line:84%
Polish people, descendants
of Polish people,

00:19:54.680 --> 00:19:57.220 align:middle line:84%
and other Eastern European
people who live in Chicago

00:19:57.220 --> 00:19:59.740 align:middle line:84%
have an effect, an
Eastern European power.

00:19:59.740 --> 00:20:02.320 align:middle line:84%
They elect to public office
people whose last names

00:20:02.320 --> 00:20:03.070 align:middle line:90%
are like theirs.

00:20:03.070 --> 00:20:05.710 align:middle line:84%
In the southwestern
part of this country,

00:20:05.710 --> 00:20:07.690 align:middle line:84%
Spanish and Mexican-Americans
are beginning

00:20:07.690 --> 00:20:10.070 align:middle line:90%
to have Spanish-American power.

00:20:10.070 --> 00:20:12.820 align:middle line:84%
They've elected a couple of
Spanish-American congressmen

00:20:12.820 --> 00:20:14.812 align:middle line:84%
and other Spanish
and Mexican-Americans

00:20:14.812 --> 00:20:15.520 align:middle line:90%
to public office.

00:20:15.520 --> 00:20:17.860 align:middle line:84%
And what black power
speaks for Negroes

00:20:17.860 --> 00:20:20.718 align:middle line:84%
is exactly the same thing that
these other ethnic and minority

00:20:20.718 --> 00:20:22.010 align:middle line:90%
groups have had for themselves.

00:20:22.010 --> 00:20:23.640 align:middle line:84%
Yeah, of course,
you have had many,

00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:28.770 align:middle line:84%
when you mention as an example
of the legislative personnel,

00:20:28.770 --> 00:20:31.000 align:middle line:84%
on the federal
level obviously, you

00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:35.960 align:middle line:84%
have had many, like Powell
for a long, long time,

00:20:35.960 --> 00:20:40.180 align:middle line:84%
representative from the major
metropolitan areas of Chicago

00:20:40.180 --> 00:20:41.840 align:middle line:90%
or Detroit or.

00:20:41.840 --> 00:20:42.340 align:middle line:90%
Right.

00:20:42.340 --> 00:20:44.110 align:middle line:84%
Incidentally, that
shows one rule,

00:20:44.110 --> 00:20:46.540 align:middle line:84%
that white people by and large,
will not vote for a Negro.

00:20:46.540 --> 00:20:49.292 align:middle line:84%
Senator Brooke is the
only one of those Negroes

00:20:49.292 --> 00:20:51.250 align:middle line:84%
in office on the national
level who was elected

00:20:51.250 --> 00:20:52.780 align:middle line:90%
by a white constituency.

00:20:52.780 --> 00:20:54.610 align:middle line:84%
All of the others
had to exercise

00:20:54.610 --> 00:20:56.530 align:middle line:84%
what I call black
power, in order

00:20:56.530 --> 00:20:57.710 align:middle line:90%
to get into public office.

00:20:57.710 --> 00:20:59.932 align:middle line:84%
Powell could not have been
elected in any other part

00:20:59.932 --> 00:21:00.640 align:middle line:90%
of New York City.

00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:02.680 align:middle line:84%
Congressman Dawson could
not have been elected

00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:05.333 align:middle line:90%
in any other part of Chicago.

00:21:05.333 --> 00:21:07.000 align:middle line:84%
John Conyers could
not have been elected

00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:07.760 align:middle line:90%
in any other part but Detroit.

00:21:07.760 --> 00:21:09.177 align:middle line:84%
But still, I mean,
since they have

00:21:09.177 --> 00:21:12.020 align:middle line:84%
been elected as you suggested,
mainly by Negro personnel,

00:21:12.020 --> 00:21:15.070 align:middle line:84%
would that be indicative
that they are the expression

00:21:15.070 --> 00:21:17.300 align:middle line:90%
of something like black power?

00:21:17.300 --> 00:21:17.800 align:middle line:90%
They are.

00:21:17.800 --> 00:21:20.100 align:middle line:84%
I think in some cases, they're
a bad expression of it.

00:21:20.100 --> 00:21:22.660 align:middle line:84%
Dawson certainly is
no shining example

00:21:22.660 --> 00:21:25.900 align:middle line:84%
of how a public figure ought to
represent his constituency who

00:21:25.900 --> 00:21:28.785 align:middle line:84%
are largely poor
welfare recipients.

00:21:28.785 --> 00:21:30.660 align:middle line:84%
I don't think he's a
very good representation

00:21:30.660 --> 00:21:31.877 align:middle line:90%
of their desires.

00:21:31.877 --> 00:21:33.460 align:middle line:84%
They apparently think
so, because they

00:21:33.460 --> 00:21:36.700 align:middle line:84%
keep reelecting him, partly
because of the vicious control

00:21:36.700 --> 00:21:39.590 align:middle line:84%
he exercises over them through
his participation in the Daley

00:21:39.590 --> 00:21:40.090 align:middle line:90%
machine.

00:21:40.090 --> 00:21:41.127 align:middle line:90%
But they are examples.

00:21:41.127 --> 00:21:42.710 align:middle line:84%
They happen to be,
some of them happen

00:21:42.710 --> 00:21:43.860 align:middle line:84%
to be bad examples
of black power.

00:21:43.860 --> 00:21:44.530 align:middle line:90%
Yeah.

00:21:44.530 --> 00:21:47.530 align:middle line:84%
Of course, there has been
some kind of thinking,

00:21:47.530 --> 00:21:50.340 align:middle line:84%
perhaps wrong kind of
thinking in the United States,

00:21:50.340 --> 00:21:53.000 align:middle line:90%
as to the extent of black power.

00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:55.180 align:middle line:84%
Black power not just
being an expression as you

00:21:55.180 --> 00:21:57.190 align:middle line:84%
defined it, but
something that might

00:21:57.190 --> 00:22:01.720 align:middle line:84%
be building to take over
somewhat more than you

00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:02.890 align:middle line:90%
seemingly suggest.

00:22:02.890 --> 00:22:04.670 align:middle line:84%
Well, if that did
happen, first, it

00:22:04.670 --> 00:22:07.132 align:middle line:84%
would simply be a reversal
of roles in this country.

00:22:07.132 --> 00:22:09.340 align:middle line:84%
Negros would begin to be
doing what white people have

00:22:09.340 --> 00:22:10.373 align:middle line:90%
done all along.

00:22:10.373 --> 00:22:12.040 align:middle line:84%
I think the reason
people fear the term,

00:22:12.040 --> 00:22:15.400 align:middle line:84%
is that they, white people
particularly think that Negroes

00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:18.280 align:middle line:84%
will do to them what
white people have been

00:22:18.280 --> 00:22:19.700 align:middle line:90%
doing to us for so many years.

00:22:19.700 --> 00:22:22.780 align:middle line:84%
But as I see the term, it's
neither negative or positive.

00:22:22.780 --> 00:22:24.790 align:middle line:84%
It's neither violent
or nonviolent.

00:22:24.790 --> 00:22:26.950 align:middle line:84%
But in its use, may be
any of those things.

00:22:26.950 --> 00:22:28.570 align:middle line:84%
I'm hopeful that
will be a positive

00:22:28.570 --> 00:22:30.098 align:middle line:90%
or a good, a progressive word.

00:22:30.098 --> 00:22:31.390 align:middle line:90%
But it could be a very bad one.

00:22:31.390 --> 00:22:34.330 align:middle line:84%
Just as white power, if
such exists in this country,

00:22:34.330 --> 00:22:36.785 align:middle line:90%
can be a benefit to all people.

00:22:36.785 --> 00:22:38.993 align:middle line:84%
Or it can be brutal and
oppressive and discriminatory

00:22:38.993 --> 00:22:41.500 align:middle line:90%
and filled with bigotry.

00:22:41.500 --> 00:22:45.080 align:middle line:84%
Would it then be perhaps
necessary to redefine

00:22:45.080 --> 00:22:47.600 align:middle line:84%
for the convenience of
many, what really the term

00:22:47.600 --> 00:22:49.625 align:middle line:90%
black power stands for?

00:22:49.625 --> 00:22:50.570 align:middle line:90%
I mean--

00:22:50.570 --> 00:22:51.320 align:middle line:90%
Well, I think it--

00:22:51.320 --> 00:22:52.910 align:middle line:90%
By persons like you?

00:22:52.910 --> 00:22:53.410 align:middle line:90%
Well.

00:22:53.410 --> 00:22:54.660 align:middle line:90%
Who think some of [INAUDIBLE].

00:22:54.660 --> 00:22:57.590 align:middle line:84%
Those who originate the
term, Stokely Carmichael

00:22:57.590 --> 00:22:59.390 align:middle line:84%
for instance, has
time and time again

00:22:59.390 --> 00:23:04.230 align:middle line:84%
defined it, only to be told
by others, that's not true.

00:23:04.230 --> 00:23:06.280 align:middle line:84%
I think if you were
to make up a slogan,

00:23:06.280 --> 00:23:07.940 align:middle line:84%
call it say, grass
power, and say

00:23:07.940 --> 00:23:10.342 align:middle line:84%
grass power means the
ability of grass to grow,

00:23:10.342 --> 00:23:12.050 align:middle line:84%
it's not my position
to come and tell you

00:23:12.050 --> 00:23:13.880 align:middle line:84%
that you're correct, because
it's your slogan that you've

00:23:13.880 --> 00:23:14.690 align:middle line:90%
made it up.

00:23:14.690 --> 00:23:16.640 align:middle line:84%
Carmichael says that
black power means what

00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:18.290 align:middle line:90%
I've just said that it means.

00:23:18.290 --> 00:23:19.340 align:middle line:90%
And I believe him.

00:23:19.340 --> 00:23:20.632 align:middle line:90%
I take him at his word.

00:23:20.632 --> 00:23:23.090 align:middle line:84%
He's done it a great many times
and he's always being told,

00:23:23.090 --> 00:23:25.340 align:middle line:84%
that's not true, that's
not what it really means.

00:23:25.340 --> 00:23:26.935 align:middle line:90%
It really means this.

00:23:26.935 --> 00:23:29.590 align:middle line:84%
It doesn't help Mr.
Carmichael's cause though,

00:23:29.590 --> 00:23:33.280 align:middle line:84%
does it, when you get groups
like Black Panther groups?

00:23:33.280 --> 00:23:35.300 align:middle line:84%
Well, it depends on
what these groups do.

00:23:35.300 --> 00:23:37.800 align:middle line:84%
There are a great many Black
Panther groups in this country.

00:23:37.800 --> 00:23:39.900 align:middle line:84%
Most of them are just
political organization.

00:23:39.900 --> 00:23:42.860 align:middle line:84%
They want some kind of political
expression for Negroes.

00:23:42.860 --> 00:23:47.160 align:middle line:84%
And I think that's a legitimate
request, a legitimate desire.

00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:50.510 align:middle line:84%
Now then, let me say,
do you expect then

00:23:50.510 --> 00:23:53.620 align:middle line:84%
as a result of this,
changes in the South

00:23:53.620 --> 00:23:57.410 align:middle line:84%
that I personally feel
are still quite necessary,

00:23:57.410 --> 00:24:01.340 align:middle line:84%
even if integration of
one kind or the other

00:24:01.340 --> 00:24:05.545 align:middle line:84%
has taken place on the
education level, particularly

00:24:05.545 --> 00:24:07.300 align:middle line:90%
of the higher education level?

00:24:07.300 --> 00:24:07.800 align:middle line:90%
Oh, yeah.

00:24:07.800 --> 00:24:10.295 align:middle line:84%
There's got to be a change
in the social order.

00:24:10.295 --> 00:24:12.670 align:middle line:84%
I mean, it wouldn't do any
good if every Negro in Georgia

00:24:12.670 --> 00:24:14.253 align:middle line:84%
could go to the
University of Georgia,

00:24:14.253 --> 00:24:15.940 align:middle line:90%
because not all want to go.

00:24:15.940 --> 00:24:17.320 align:middle line:90%
Not all need to go.

00:24:17.320 --> 00:24:19.540 align:middle line:84%
Everyone doesn't need
a college education.

00:24:19.540 --> 00:24:21.280 align:middle line:84%
What people need
is a decent life.

00:24:21.280 --> 00:24:24.460 align:middle line:84%
They need a home and a
job and something to eat.

00:24:24.460 --> 00:24:26.418 align:middle line:84%
And they don't get that
simply by being allowed

00:24:26.418 --> 00:24:27.835 align:middle line:84%
to go to the
University of Georgia

00:24:27.835 --> 00:24:29.800 align:middle line:84%
or being able to sit
down at the lunch counter

00:24:29.800 --> 00:24:31.120 align:middle line:90%
and order a hamburger.

00:24:31.120 --> 00:24:33.490 align:middle line:84%
They need some economic
changes in their lives.

00:24:33.490 --> 00:24:35.350 align:middle line:84%
That's what society's
got to produce.

00:24:35.350 --> 00:24:37.130 align:middle line:84%
They should all
be allowed to go.

00:24:37.130 --> 00:24:37.630 align:middle line:90%
Right.

00:24:37.630 --> 00:24:38.630 align:middle line:84%
This is isn't what
you're saying.

00:24:38.630 --> 00:24:38.850 align:middle line:90%
Yeah.

00:24:38.850 --> 00:24:39.070 align:middle line:90%
Right.

00:24:39.070 --> 00:24:40.330 align:middle line:84%
They should be allowed
to go, but there's

00:24:40.330 --> 00:24:41.510 align:middle line:90%
no need for everybody to go.

00:24:41.510 --> 00:24:43.385 align:middle line:84%
I mean, we don't need
everybody in Washington

00:24:43.385 --> 00:24:45.220 align:middle line:90%
to go to this school either.

00:24:45.220 --> 00:24:50.740 align:middle line:84%
What about J. Edgar Hoover
and the recent pronouncements

00:24:50.740 --> 00:24:54.350 align:middle line:84%
by the House subcommittee
on appropriations

00:24:54.350 --> 00:24:57.513 align:middle line:90%
about apparent affiliations?

00:24:57.513 --> 00:24:58.180 align:middle line:90%
Well, what Mr.--

00:24:58.180 --> 00:24:58.960 align:middle line:90%
By Mr. Carmichael.

00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:01.108 align:middle line:84%
--Hoover was talking
about was a series

00:25:01.108 --> 00:25:02.650 align:middle line:84%
of meetings that
are supposed to have

00:25:02.650 --> 00:25:04.692 align:middle line:84%
taken place between
Carmichael and a fellow named

00:25:04.692 --> 00:25:05.932 align:middle line:90%
Max Stanford.

00:25:05.932 --> 00:25:08.140 align:middle line:84%
I don't know if Carmichael
and Max Stanford have ever

00:25:08.140 --> 00:25:08.740 align:middle line:90%
met together.

00:25:08.740 --> 00:25:10.810 align:middle line:84%
But I have met
with Max Stanford.

00:25:10.810 --> 00:25:13.570 align:middle line:84%
I don't feel myself
a dupe or a tool

00:25:13.570 --> 00:25:16.090 align:middle line:84%
or being in the hands of
the international communist

00:25:16.090 --> 00:25:18.290 align:middle line:84%
conspiracy of the
Chinese variety.

00:25:18.290 --> 00:25:20.600 align:middle line:84%
I think Mr. Hoover's
waving the familiar bugaboo

00:25:20.600 --> 00:25:23.800 align:middle line:84%
before Americans that says
that communists are bad.

00:25:23.800 --> 00:25:27.040 align:middle line:84%
That if someone meets with or
associates with a communist,

00:25:27.040 --> 00:25:29.140 align:middle line:84%
then he is bad and you
should therefore never

00:25:29.140 --> 00:25:31.120 align:middle line:84%
listen to any more
pronouncements he makes.

00:25:31.120 --> 00:25:33.910 align:middle line:84%
The other thing about J. Edgar
Hoover, some of the things

00:25:33.910 --> 00:25:35.887 align:middle line:84%
he's said, ought to
reassure Americans

00:25:35.887 --> 00:25:37.970 align:middle line:84%
that things are actually
all right with the world.

00:25:37.970 --> 00:25:39.580 align:middle line:84%
For instance, he
says the civil rights

00:25:39.580 --> 00:25:42.130 align:middle line:84%
movement has been infiltrated
by the Communist Party.

00:25:42.130 --> 00:25:45.010 align:middle line:84%
He additionally says that
the FBI has infiltrated

00:25:45.010 --> 00:25:46.050 align:middle line:90%
the Communist Party.

00:25:46.050 --> 00:25:48.640 align:middle line:84%
So what's really happened,
I assume from that,

00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:51.370 align:middle line:84%
is that the FBI has infiltrated
the civil rights movement.

00:25:51.370 --> 00:25:53.620 align:middle line:84%
So perhaps what he means
is that Stokely Carmichael

00:25:53.620 --> 00:25:55.600 align:middle line:84%
has been having meetings
with an FBI agent.

00:25:55.600 --> 00:25:58.960 align:middle line:90%


00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:02.580 align:middle line:84%
Now to come perhaps
back again once more

00:26:02.580 --> 00:26:10.240 align:middle line:84%
to matters of accomplishing
the perfect development as

00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:14.300 align:middle line:84%
far as the Negro movement
in this country's concerned,

00:26:14.300 --> 00:26:17.650 align:middle line:84%
are you, for instance,
opposed also to the concept

00:26:17.650 --> 00:26:23.450 align:middle line:84%
as I saw in an article this,
in the US New and World Report,

00:26:23.450 --> 00:26:26.050 align:middle line:84%
are you opposed to
this term, integration?

00:26:26.050 --> 00:26:29.290 align:middle line:84%
Do you fear that integration
itself is something wrong?

00:26:29.290 --> 00:26:31.540 align:middle line:84%
I'm opposed to it as it's
defined in this country.

00:26:31.540 --> 00:26:36.310 align:middle line:84%
For instance, if you
have an all white school

00:26:36.310 --> 00:26:41.620 align:middle line:84%
and a Negro goes to
it, one Negro child

00:26:41.620 --> 00:26:44.087 align:middle line:84%
goes to it, that school
becomes an integrated school.

00:26:44.087 --> 00:26:44.920 align:middle line:90%
I'm opposed to that.

00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:46.045 align:middle line:90%
A school is not integrated.

00:26:46.045 --> 00:26:47.320 align:middle line:90%
That's one Negro student.

00:26:47.320 --> 00:26:50.385 align:middle line:84%
What I'm in favor of is not
integration or segregation,

00:26:50.385 --> 00:26:51.760 align:middle line:84%
but Negroes and
Mexican-Americans

00:26:51.760 --> 00:26:54.320 align:middle line:84%
and other minority groups
and other poor people

00:26:54.320 --> 00:26:56.620 align:middle line:84%
in this country,
having a decent life.

00:26:56.620 --> 00:26:59.610 align:middle line:84%
That involves to me, neither
integration or segregation.

00:26:59.610 --> 00:27:02.240 align:middle line:84%
It involves certain economic
changes in this country.

00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:04.350 align:middle line:84%
It involves a
slight distribution

00:27:04.350 --> 00:27:05.600 align:middle line:90%
of the wealth of this country.

00:27:05.600 --> 00:27:08.021 align:middle line:84%
It involves a chance
for all Americans

00:27:08.021 --> 00:27:11.050 align:middle line:90%
a decent and productive life.

00:27:11.050 --> 00:27:14.120 align:middle line:84%
Now, I'm quite sure
of that of course,

00:27:14.120 --> 00:27:18.290 align:middle line:84%
this is the majority opinion
of the people of the United

00:27:18.290 --> 00:27:24.410 align:middle line:84%
States, who I think have come
out very clearly in behalf

00:27:24.410 --> 00:27:28.250 align:middle line:84%
of integration and do
not consider integration

00:27:28.250 --> 00:27:33.350 align:middle line:84%
as a matter of having a few
people who go to school.

00:27:33.350 --> 00:27:34.940 align:middle line:90%
I think it is a little bit more.

00:27:34.940 --> 00:27:37.530 align:middle line:84%
It has to do with
matters of housing.

00:27:37.530 --> 00:27:41.070 align:middle line:84%
It has to do, it has
economics, what have you.

00:27:41.070 --> 00:27:42.800 align:middle line:90%
Well, that may be so.

00:27:42.800 --> 00:27:44.330 align:middle line:84%
I'm sure that
there are Americans

00:27:44.330 --> 00:27:46.630 align:middle line:90%
who define it that way.

00:27:46.630 --> 00:28:02.052 align:middle line:90%