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WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.620 align:middle line:90% 00:00:10.620 --> 00:00:12.370 align:middle line:90% OK, we're recording. 00:00:12.370 --> 00:00:13.670 align:middle line:90% And here everybody comes. 00:00:13.670 --> 00:00:19.940 align:middle line:90% 00:00:19.940 --> 00:00:21.860 align:middle line:90% Hello. 00:00:21.860 --> 00:00:24.400 align:middle line:90% Welcome everyone. 00:00:24.400 --> 00:00:25.990 align:middle line:84% We're just going to wait a moment 00:00:25.990 --> 00:00:28.030 align:middle line:90% while everybody gets filled in. 00:00:28.030 --> 00:00:32.110 align:middle line:90% 00:00:32.110 --> 00:00:34.480 align:middle line:84% We'll check that you're all in and loaded up. 00:00:34.480 --> 00:00:35.630 align:middle line:90% Hello and welcome. 00:00:35.630 --> 00:00:38.020 align:middle line:84% It's so good to see you all today. 00:00:38.020 --> 00:00:39.140 align:middle line:90% Thank you for coming. 00:00:39.140 --> 00:00:41.650 align:middle line:84% My name's Athena, and I'm with Outreach and Continuing 00:00:41.650 --> 00:00:45.070 align:middle line:84% Education and Western C.A.R.E.S. here at Western Washington 00:00:45.070 --> 00:00:46.270 align:middle line:90% University. 00:00:46.270 --> 00:00:47.740 align:middle line:84% I'll be acting as your host today 00:00:47.740 --> 00:00:50.230 align:middle line:84% for this session of Stories to Tell. 00:00:50.230 --> 00:00:53.260 align:middle line:84% Just a note, the interview today is being recorded 00:00:53.260 --> 00:00:54.790 align:middle line:84% and will be archived by the Center 00:00:54.790 --> 00:00:58.030 align:middle line:84% for Pacific Northwest Studies and the South Asian-American 00:00:58.030 --> 00:01:01.150 align:middle line:84% Digital Archives, and they will be made available to the public 00:01:01.150 --> 00:01:03.940 align:middle line:84% for research, teaching, and education. 00:01:03.940 --> 00:01:06.070 align:middle line:84% A quick note about Western C.A.R.E.S. 00:01:06.070 --> 00:01:08.020 align:middle line:84% We started this as a resource for us 00:01:08.020 --> 00:01:09.880 align:middle line:84% to connect and share and maintain 00:01:09.880 --> 00:01:12.880 align:middle line:84% our sense of community and engagement during these days 00:01:12.880 --> 00:01:15.530 align:middle line:84% where we're trying to stay home and stay healthy. 00:01:15.530 --> 00:01:17.290 align:middle line:84% These are online interactive sessions 00:01:17.290 --> 00:01:20.260 align:middle line:84% put on by your colleagues and peers who are so generously 00:01:20.260 --> 00:01:22.300 align:middle line:84% volunteering their time to share their interests 00:01:22.300 --> 00:01:23.997 align:middle line:90% and experience with you. 00:01:23.997 --> 00:01:26.080 align:middle line:84% As your host, I'm going to introduce your session, 00:01:26.080 --> 00:01:28.638 align:middle line:84% and then I'm here for any tech support you might need. 00:01:28.638 --> 00:01:30.430 align:middle line:84% Please know that you entered the call today 00:01:30.430 --> 00:01:32.200 align:middle line:84% with your sound muted and your video 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:34.240 align:middle line:84% off because we are recording these, 00:01:34.240 --> 00:01:37.432 align:middle line:84% and that helps us to keep the video focused on our speakers. 00:01:37.432 --> 00:01:38.890 align:middle line:84% There will be time at the end where 00:01:38.890 --> 00:01:41.710 align:middle line:84% we will turn that sound on so you can ask questions 00:01:41.710 --> 00:01:42.710 align:middle line:90% if you'd like. 00:01:42.710 --> 00:01:44.377 align:middle line:84% And if you're not comfortable with that, 00:01:44.377 --> 00:01:46.000 align:middle line:84% there is a chat option on the side 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:47.900 align:middle line:84% and you can type your questions in. 00:01:47.900 --> 00:01:49.880 align:middle line:84% And we'll be monitoring that as well. 00:01:49.880 --> 00:01:51.890 align:middle line:84% So thank you so much for being here today. 00:01:51.890 --> 00:01:54.015 align:middle line:84% And now, I'm going to hand it back over to Dharitri 00:01:54.015 --> 00:01:55.160 align:middle line:90% to introduce our session. 00:01:55.160 --> 00:01:56.590 align:middle line:90% Thank you so much. 00:01:56.590 --> 00:01:57.640 align:middle line:10% Welcome, everyone. 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:00.850 align:middle line:10% This is Stories to Tell and I'm Dharitri Bhattacharjee. 00:02:00.850 --> 00:02:03.700 align:middle line:10% I teach in the History department at Western. 00:02:03.700 --> 00:02:05.800 align:middle line:10% In this oral history series, our goal 00:02:05.800 --> 00:02:08.770 align:middle line:10% is to explore a diversity of South Asian perspectives 00:02:08.770 --> 00:02:10.300 align:middle line:10% on COVID-19. 00:02:10.300 --> 00:02:13.760 align:middle line:10% The region of South Asia comprises India, Pakistan, 00:02:13.760 --> 00:02:18.460 align:middle line:10% Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Bhutan, Nepal, Maldives, Afghanistan. 00:02:18.460 --> 00:02:21.820 align:middle line:10% For the next three weeks on Tuesdays and Thursdays at 2 00:02:21.820 --> 00:02:24.190 align:middle line:10% PM Pacific Standard Time, we will be 00:02:24.190 --> 00:02:26.140 align:middle line:10% bringing for you a new voice. 00:02:26.140 --> 00:02:28.790 align:middle line:10% I will ask questions for the next 30 minutes. 00:02:28.790 --> 00:02:31.960 align:middle line:10% And after that, we really encourage you to ask questions 00:02:31.960 --> 00:02:36.340 align:middle line:10% to our guest Batool Zaidi. 00:02:36.340 --> 00:02:38.440 align:middle line:10% Minorities and immigrants are routinely 00:02:38.440 --> 00:02:40.960 align:middle line:10% underrepresented, absent in archival collections, 00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:44.440 align:middle line:10% so I could not be more excited to be convening this series. 00:02:44.440 --> 00:02:46.960 align:middle line:10% Although I will be asking the questions, a lot of people 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:48.070 align:middle line:10% have made this happen. 00:02:48.070 --> 00:02:52.660 align:middle line:10% I would in particular like to acknowledge our Western C.A.R.E.S. 00:02:52.660 --> 00:02:57.070 align:middle line:10% program specialist Athena Roth and Archivist at Center 00:02:57.070 --> 00:03:00.530 align:middle line:10% for Northwest Pacific Studies Ruth Steele. 00:03:00.530 --> 00:03:04.030 align:middle line:10% And finally, a welcome to Batool Zaidi. 00:03:04.030 --> 00:03:07.270 align:middle line:10% She is an assistant professor in the Sociology department 00:03:07.270 --> 00:03:11.680 align:middle line:10% at Western, and she will talk to us, among other things, 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:16.200 align:middle line:10% about immigration visas and response to the pandemic. 00:03:16.200 --> 00:03:20.570 align:middle line:10% So Batool, first question for you. 00:03:20.570 --> 00:03:22.300 align:middle line:10% Tell us a little bit about yourself 00:03:22.300 --> 00:03:27.170 align:middle line:10% and how did you end up in Western? 00:03:27.170 --> 00:03:30.250 align:middle line:84% OK, well first, thanks for having me. 00:03:30.250 --> 00:03:34.510 align:middle line:84% OK, so a super quick, how did I end up at Western. 00:03:34.510 --> 00:03:36.260 align:middle line:90% I am from Pakistan. 00:03:36.260 --> 00:03:37.550 align:middle line:90% I grew up in Lahore. 00:03:37.550 --> 00:03:39.170 align:middle line:90% I did my high school there. 00:03:39.170 --> 00:03:43.320 align:middle line:84% And then I came to the US for my undergrad. 00:03:43.320 --> 00:03:45.100 align:middle line:84% I went to this really small liberal arts 00:03:45.100 --> 00:03:47.600 align:middle line:90% college, Mount Holyoke. 00:03:47.600 --> 00:03:50.620 align:middle line:84% I did my Bachelors in Economics, then 00:03:50.620 --> 00:03:54.700 align:middle line:84% I went home, worked for a year, and then 00:03:54.700 --> 00:03:59.590 align:middle line:84% did my Masters in London, LSE in Population and Development 00:03:59.590 --> 00:04:00.190 align:middle line:90% Studies. 00:04:00.190 --> 00:04:01.900 align:middle line:84% And then after that, I was working 00:04:01.900 --> 00:04:04.600 align:middle line:84% in Pakistan for this research NGO 00:04:04.600 --> 00:04:08.410 align:middle line:84% doing work on reproductive health, girls education 00:04:08.410 --> 00:04:10.630 align:middle line:90% for five years in Islamabad. 00:04:10.630 --> 00:04:16.390 align:middle line:84% And at some point, to make progress or get promoted, 00:04:16.390 --> 00:04:18.700 align:middle line:90% you needed a PhD. 00:04:18.700 --> 00:04:23.020 align:middle line:84% So I applied to a bunch of different places in the US 00:04:23.020 --> 00:04:26.560 align:middle line:84% and decided to go to UNC Chapel Hill 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:30.430 align:middle line:84% because it has a really good population center. 00:04:30.430 --> 00:04:32.650 align:middle line:90% And then I finished my PhD. 00:04:32.650 --> 00:04:36.520 align:middle line:90% And here I am at Western. 00:04:36.520 --> 00:04:39.070 align:middle line:84% I came to Western because A, they offered me a job, 00:04:39.070 --> 00:04:42.450 align:middle line:84% but also because Western's Sociology department 00:04:42.450 --> 00:04:47.180 align:middle line:84% is a little bit unique in that within the undergrad program, 00:04:47.180 --> 00:04:51.533 align:middle line:84% they have a focus on Population Study/Demography. 00:04:51.533 --> 00:04:53.200 align:middle line:84% And it's a teaching school, and I really 00:04:53.200 --> 00:04:55.545 align:middle line:84% wanted to be at a teaching school. 00:04:55.545 --> 00:04:58.510 align:middle line:90% So I am in Bellingham now. 00:04:58.510 --> 00:05:01.960 align:middle line:10% Tell us a little bit about your experience in Mount Holyoke, 00:05:01.960 --> 00:05:07.180 align:middle line:10% in the sense that you arrived there, start your quarter, 00:05:07.180 --> 00:05:10.010 align:middle line:10% and soon after arriving, 9/11 happens. 00:05:10.010 --> 00:05:12.820 align:middle line:10% And you are from Pakistan. 00:05:12.820 --> 00:05:13.960 align:middle line:10% What did it mean? 00:05:13.960 --> 00:05:15.370 align:middle line:10% What did that mean? 00:05:15.370 --> 00:05:19.810 align:middle line:84% Yeah, so actually because I started in 2001, 00:05:19.810 --> 00:05:24.940 align:middle line:84% 9/11 was exactly a week after I'd been on campus. 00:05:24.940 --> 00:05:27.910 align:middle line:84% And this was my first time outside 00:05:27.910 --> 00:05:31.990 align:middle line:90% of South Asia in general. 00:05:31.990 --> 00:05:34.460 align:middle line:10% But yeah, I think I just remember from the day itself, 00:05:34.460 --> 00:05:35.110 align:middle line:10% I remember-- 00:05:35.110 --> 00:05:38.470 align:middle line:10% I have this vivid image of all of these girls 00:05:38.470 --> 00:05:41.720 align:middle line:10% around me watching TV and crying. 00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:45.170 align:middle line:10% And I just didn't even know what was happening. 00:05:45.170 --> 00:05:50.120 align:middle line:84% And then of course post that, I think I was at Mount Holyoke. 00:05:50.120 --> 00:05:54.770 align:middle line:84% So I was really protected from a lot of what was happening, 00:05:54.770 --> 00:06:01.750 align:middle line:84% a lot of the anti-Muslim sentiment in the US. 00:06:01.750 --> 00:06:07.770 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I think I've only ever known a post-9/11 America. 00:06:07.770 --> 00:06:13.190 align:middle line:84% So it was really hard for me to know how it shifted. 00:06:13.190 --> 00:06:17.150 align:middle line:10% Do you think it was partly because it was a Liberal Arts 00:06:17.150 --> 00:06:17.870 align:middle line:10% campus? 00:06:17.870 --> 00:06:20.050 align:middle line:10% Or also the fact that Mount Holyoke 00:06:20.050 --> 00:06:23.360 align:middle line:10% has an extremely diverse campus, a lot 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:25.530 align:middle line:10% of international students? 00:06:25.530 --> 00:06:27.380 align:middle line:10% Well, yeah. 00:06:27.380 --> 00:06:29.630 align:middle line:84% I think it's like A, Mount Holyoke 00:06:29.630 --> 00:06:31.520 align:middle line:84% is in a really, really small town. 00:06:31.520 --> 00:06:35.600 align:middle line:84% Everyone lives on campus, so you never really 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:36.980 align:middle line:90% have to leave campus. 00:06:36.980 --> 00:06:39.230 align:middle line:90% That's like your world. 00:06:39.230 --> 00:06:43.580 align:middle line:84% And also Mount Holyoke has like 30% international students, 00:06:43.580 --> 00:06:47.090 align:middle line:84% and so I was around a lot of international students. 00:06:47.090 --> 00:06:49.790 align:middle line:84% Most of my friends were international students. 00:06:49.790 --> 00:06:51.320 align:middle line:84% And so there is a way in, which I 00:06:51.320 --> 00:06:53.810 align:middle line:84% think that made dealing with everything 00:06:53.810 --> 00:06:57.140 align:middle line:90% that was happening easier. 00:06:57.140 --> 00:06:59.612 align:middle line:10% So I remember chatting with you earlier, 00:06:59.612 --> 00:07:01.820 align:middle line:10% and you said you were one of the reasons you ended up 00:07:01.820 --> 00:07:04.490 align:middle line:10% in Mount Holyoke is because your sister had attended. 00:07:04.490 --> 00:07:09.740 align:middle line:10% So were you curious to find out if she had a different campus 00:07:09.740 --> 00:07:13.490 align:middle line:10% experience than you before 9/11? 00:07:13.490 --> 00:07:20.630 align:middle line:10% Because it's almost like a shift happened after 9/11 in the US. 00:07:20.630 --> 00:07:23.328 align:middle line:90% Yeah, so was I curious? 00:07:23.328 --> 00:07:23.870 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:07:23.870 --> 00:07:26.330 align:middle line:84% I think I was just an 18-year-old trying 00:07:26.330 --> 00:07:29.720 align:middle line:84% to navigate a completely new world, 00:07:29.720 --> 00:07:34.190 align:middle line:84% and a world that was hostile, then, to Muslims. 00:07:34.190 --> 00:07:37.700 align:middle line:84% But my sister always had spoke about the US 00:07:37.700 --> 00:07:40.890 align:middle line:84% being super friendly, super easy to get into. 00:07:40.890 --> 00:07:44.660 align:middle line:84% She never had any problem at airports. 00:07:44.660 --> 00:07:46.260 align:middle line:90% So that was her experience. 00:07:46.260 --> 00:07:49.950 align:middle line:84% But did I try to find out or think about it? 00:07:49.950 --> 00:07:53.450 align:middle line:84% Not really, because I was just trying to get through it 00:07:53.450 --> 00:07:54.600 align:middle line:90% myself. 00:07:54.600 --> 00:07:55.100 align:middle line:90% Right. 00:07:55.100 --> 00:07:56.475 align:middle line:10% So as you mentioned, I mean there 00:07:56.475 --> 00:07:59.450 align:middle line:10% was a sudden rise in Islamophobia 00:07:59.450 --> 00:08:01.370 align:middle line:10% after 9/11 in the US. 00:08:01.370 --> 00:08:05.250 align:middle line:10% So how was navigating that outside your campus? 00:08:05.250 --> 00:08:05.990 align:middle line:10% Yes, I think-- 00:08:05.990 --> 00:08:08.930 align:middle line:10% 00:08:08.930 --> 00:08:10.460 align:middle line:10% You mentioned airports as well. 00:08:10.460 --> 00:08:15.620 align:middle line:10% It's a very standard story that a lot of immigrants, 00:08:15.620 --> 00:08:18.350 align:middle line:10% especially from countries if they are Muslim, 00:08:18.350 --> 00:08:21.853 align:middle line:10% if they have a certain passport, they always encounter trouble 00:08:21.853 --> 00:08:22.520 align:middle line:10% at the airports. 00:08:22.520 --> 00:08:25.010 align:middle line:10% What's your experience been like? 00:08:25.010 --> 00:08:32.370 align:middle line:84% So I think I am lucky in that my name is not obviously Muslim. 00:08:32.370 --> 00:08:34.820 align:middle line:84% And I don't outwardly look like a Muslim. 00:08:34.820 --> 00:08:36.919 align:middle line:84% I could be any kind of South Asian. 00:08:36.919 --> 00:08:42.770 align:middle line:84% So in terms of like active, interactional discrimination 00:08:42.770 --> 00:08:48.800 align:middle line:84% or hate behaviors, none of that really happened to me. 00:08:48.800 --> 00:08:50.810 align:middle line:84% But yes, I of course experienced what 00:08:50.810 --> 00:08:52.340 align:middle line:90% was happening at the airport. 00:08:52.340 --> 00:08:55.190 align:middle line:90% 00:08:55.190 --> 00:09:03.110 align:middle line:84% I think I've only ever known the US like border/airport 00:09:03.110 --> 00:09:07.548 align:middle line:84% to be a really stressful place, just because you never 00:09:07.548 --> 00:09:09.590 align:middle line:84% knew what was going to happen, if they were going 00:09:09.590 --> 00:09:11.910 align:middle line:90% to let you go through or not. 00:09:11.910 --> 00:09:15.830 align:middle line:84% Often they send you back for these extra security checks. 00:09:15.830 --> 00:09:19.370 align:middle line:84% I remember I was coming back from my study abroad, 00:09:19.370 --> 00:09:23.090 align:middle line:90% and they just they took me back. 00:09:23.090 --> 00:09:25.160 align:middle line:84% And not even just the second security 00:09:25.160 --> 00:09:27.210 align:middle line:84% check, but like those little rooms 00:09:27.210 --> 00:09:29.600 align:middle line:90% that you see in the movies. 00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:31.530 align:middle line:84% And they left me there for hours. 00:09:31.530 --> 00:09:35.390 align:middle line:84% And so definitely things like that happened. 00:09:35.390 --> 00:09:39.320 align:middle line:10% And this is when all your papers are intact and in order. 00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:39.820 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:09:39.820 --> 00:09:42.230 align:middle line:84% This is 100% when I'm there "legally". 00:09:42.230 --> 00:09:45.680 align:middle line:90% 00:09:45.680 --> 00:09:47.840 align:middle line:10% And, if you don't mind my asking, 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:52.400 align:middle line:10% because you said you don't visibly sort of look Muslim-- 00:09:52.400 --> 00:09:53.990 align:middle line:10% you don't wear a burqa or something. 00:09:53.990 --> 00:09:55.520 align:middle line:10% Are you a practicing Muslim? 00:09:55.520 --> 00:09:57.350 align:middle line:10% Are you religious? 00:09:57.350 --> 00:10:01.430 align:middle line:10% Or would you call yourself a practicing Muslim? 00:10:01.430 --> 00:10:05.510 align:middle line:84% I mean I would definitely say I identify as a Muslim. 00:10:05.510 --> 00:10:08.720 align:middle line:84% On a scale of 1 to 10 of practicing things, 00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:09.800 align:middle line:90% not very high. 00:10:09.800 --> 00:10:13.050 align:middle line:90% 00:10:13.050 --> 00:10:13.550 align:middle line:90% Right. 00:10:13.550 --> 00:10:17.290 align:middle line:10% So the reason why I'm asking is have you found yourself 00:10:17.290 --> 00:10:22.870 align:middle line:10% in situations where you've had to talk about Pakistan, 00:10:22.870 --> 00:10:27.160 align:middle line:10% defend Pakistan, defend Islam, defend women in Islam, 00:10:27.160 --> 00:10:30.640 align:middle line:10% like have you found yourself needing 00:10:30.640 --> 00:10:33.070 align:middle line:10% to have these conversations despite the fact 00:10:33.070 --> 00:10:36.130 align:middle line:10% that you might not always feel invested in it so much? 00:10:36.130 --> 00:10:38.140 align:middle line:10% You might be just thinking about your research, 00:10:38.140 --> 00:10:42.560 align:middle line:10% but you sort of have to have these conversations sometimes. 00:10:42.560 --> 00:10:45.280 align:middle line:84% Yeah so I can't honestly really say 00:10:45.280 --> 00:10:46.940 align:middle line:84% a lot about my Mount Holyoke time. 00:10:46.940 --> 00:10:48.590 align:middle line:90% It was almost 20 years ago. 00:10:48.590 --> 00:10:53.370 align:middle line:84% But if I think about my time in the US during my PhD, 00:10:53.370 --> 00:10:56.680 align:middle line:84% I have definitely had moments where I have to defend Pakistan 00:10:56.680 --> 00:11:00.340 align:middle line:84% or how women in Pakistan are, especially because my research 00:11:00.340 --> 00:11:02.020 align:middle line:90% looks at women in Pakistan. 00:11:02.020 --> 00:11:06.310 align:middle line:84% And so whether it's your advisor or some professor 00:11:06.310 --> 00:11:08.420 align:middle line:84% you meet or even other students, and they're 00:11:08.420 --> 00:11:10.960 align:middle line:84% like question and answer, will ask 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:15.340 align:middle line:84% these questions about Pakistan and women in Pakistan 00:11:15.340 --> 00:11:18.320 align:middle line:84% and whether they're treated a specific way. 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:21.670 align:middle line:84% I think it's interesting because ever since I've 00:11:21.670 --> 00:11:24.480 align:middle line:84% come to Western, which hasn't been that long, it's 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:28.570 align:middle line:84% just a year, nobody ever explicitly talks 00:11:28.570 --> 00:11:29.740 align:middle line:90% about Islam with me. 00:11:29.740 --> 00:11:32.200 align:middle line:84% I feel like Islam is something that just doesn't come up, 00:11:32.200 --> 00:11:33.250 align:middle line:90% or being Muslim. 00:11:33.250 --> 00:11:35.910 align:middle line:90% 00:11:35.910 --> 00:11:39.420 align:middle line:84% It's almost like people would rather not talk about it, 00:11:39.420 --> 00:11:42.980 align:middle line:84% and they can have different reasons for that. 00:11:42.980 --> 00:11:44.570 align:middle line:10% Right, I'm not a practicing Hindu, 00:11:44.570 --> 00:11:48.050 align:middle line:10% but I find myself talking about Hinduism a lot. 00:11:48.050 --> 00:11:51.060 align:middle line:10% It's also because I teach South Asia. 00:11:51.060 --> 00:11:53.550 align:middle line:10% And so that's where the question was coming from. 00:11:53.550 --> 00:11:58.190 align:middle line:10% But I find myself saying oh no, in Hinduism, 00:11:58.190 --> 00:12:01.830 align:middle line:10% beef eating is not forbidden. 00:12:01.830 --> 00:12:03.930 align:middle line:10% So that's where the question was coming from. 00:12:03.930 --> 00:12:07.470 align:middle line:10% But you don't get questions from colleagues about Islam? 00:12:07.470 --> 00:12:09.330 align:middle line:10% Like just questions-- 00:12:09.330 --> 00:12:09.830 align:middle line:10% No. 00:12:09.830 --> 00:12:11.840 align:middle line:84% I mean I think it's definitely also-- like, 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:15.410 align:middle line:84% I can see why people would ask questions about Hinduism, 00:12:15.410 --> 00:12:16.460 align:middle line:90% especially in the West. 00:12:16.460 --> 00:12:20.450 align:middle line:84% It might have some sort of mystery, like oh, yoga 00:12:20.450 --> 00:12:24.040 align:middle line:84% comes from India, some kind of curiosity about it, 00:12:24.040 --> 00:12:28.860 align:middle line:84% where as I feel like with Islam or being Muslim, 00:12:28.860 --> 00:12:31.210 align:middle line:84% it's probably like two things [? that are there ?].. 00:12:31.210 --> 00:12:35.890 align:middle line:84% One is I don't think it's politically correct, especially 00:12:35.890 --> 00:12:39.010 align:middle line:84% for academics, to kind of ask you about Islam, 00:12:39.010 --> 00:12:40.930 align:middle line:90% or what is Islam or not. 00:12:40.930 --> 00:12:43.600 align:middle line:84% But also, I think people feel like they already 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:44.920 align:middle line:90% know what Islam is. 00:12:44.920 --> 00:12:52.320 align:middle line:84% And so it's already represented so much in the media 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:54.955 align:middle line:84% as being this one thing that I don't 00:12:54.955 --> 00:12:56.580 align:middle line:84% think people have questions about, well 00:12:56.580 --> 00:12:59.738 align:middle line:90% what is it actually? 00:12:59.738 --> 00:13:00.530 align:middle line:10% That's interesting. 00:13:00.530 --> 00:13:02.993 align:middle line:10% And that's, I think, also a factor 00:13:02.993 --> 00:13:04.160 align:middle line:10% that you're not a historian. 00:13:04.160 --> 00:13:07.550 align:middle line:10% You're a sociologist, so it's a different kind of questions 00:13:07.550 --> 00:13:09.590 align:middle line:10% that you're asked. 00:13:09.590 --> 00:13:11.600 align:middle line:10% But also, I really find it interesting 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:15.710 align:middle line:10% that you say that people have set notions about Islam, 00:13:15.710 --> 00:13:17.960 align:middle line:10% but about Hinduism, there is genuine curiosity. 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:20.210 align:middle line:10% So you get asked. 00:13:20.210 --> 00:13:25.280 align:middle line:10% So what was UNC like after Mount Holyoke? 00:13:25.280 --> 00:13:28.570 align:middle line:10% During your time there, the shootings happened. 00:13:28.570 --> 00:13:30.495 align:middle line:10% I think of Jordanian American and 00:13:30.495 --> 00:13:32.550 align:middle line:10% some Syrian American students. 00:13:32.550 --> 00:13:34.940 align:middle line:10% What was the atmosphere like there? 00:13:34.940 --> 00:13:39.410 align:middle line:84% Yeah I think for me I noticed, even though I 00:13:39.410 --> 00:13:42.810 align:middle line:84% was at Mount Holyoke right after 9/11, 00:13:42.810 --> 00:13:47.300 align:middle line:84% I think for me the anti-Muslim sentiment/Islamophobia 00:13:47.300 --> 00:13:52.650 align:middle line:84% was infinitely more present in my experience at UNC. 00:13:52.650 --> 00:13:55.250 align:middle line:84% Not specifically things happening to me, 00:13:55.250 --> 00:13:58.250 align:middle line:84% but just I think during those years 00:13:58.250 --> 00:14:00.710 align:middle line:84% there was generally a lot of Islamophobia 00:14:00.710 --> 00:14:04.640 align:middle line:84% and anti-Muslim rhetoric and policies. 00:14:04.640 --> 00:14:07.622 align:middle line:84% So yeah, I was really conscious of it then. 00:14:07.622 --> 00:14:09.080 align:middle line:84% And yeah, like you mentioned, there 00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:12.290 align:middle line:90% was those three UNC students. 00:14:12.290 --> 00:14:14.280 align:middle line:84% They were all like 18, 20-years-old. 00:14:14.280 --> 00:14:17.240 align:middle line:84% And they got shot by their neighbor. 00:14:17.240 --> 00:14:20.580 align:middle line:84% So it was definitely very present. 00:14:20.580 --> 00:14:28.980 align:middle line:84% And I was really conscious of being a Muslim woman. 00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:31.710 align:middle line:10% And for UNC, you came to Western. 00:14:31.710 --> 00:14:34.150 align:middle line:10% And at UNC you were a student, but at Western you're 00:14:34.150 --> 00:14:35.980 align:middle line:10% now an international faculty. 00:14:35.980 --> 00:14:39.840 align:middle line:10% So in terms of immigration status, 00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:43.040 align:middle line:10% what are some of the changes that happened? 00:14:43.040 --> 00:14:46.990 align:middle line:84% So when I was a student here on a student visa, which is the F1 00:14:46.990 --> 00:14:52.110 align:middle line:84% and it's joint with an I-20 that your university has. 00:14:52.110 --> 00:14:55.770 align:middle line:84% And then with the student visa, you're 00:14:55.770 --> 00:14:58.560 align:middle line:84% allowed once you graduate or finish your degree, 00:14:58.560 --> 00:15:01.860 align:middle line:84% you've got one year of Optional Practical Training. 00:15:01.860 --> 00:15:05.310 align:middle line:84% So you're allowed to work in the US for a year. 00:15:05.310 --> 00:15:09.060 align:middle line:84% And that's what I was on this past year at Western. 00:15:09.060 --> 00:15:11.330 align:middle line:10% But then once you're done with that, 00:15:11.330 --> 00:15:16.620 align:middle line:10% you can switch to a work visa, which is the H-1B. 00:15:16.620 --> 00:15:19.350 align:middle line:84% And the H-1B has two aspects to it. 00:15:19.350 --> 00:15:21.630 align:middle line:84% One is that your university needs 00:15:21.630 --> 00:15:26.610 align:middle line:84% to apply for you to get the approval to work in the US, 00:15:26.610 --> 00:15:29.050 align:middle line:84% and so there the approval aspect of it. 00:15:29.050 --> 00:15:31.860 align:middle line:84% And then there's is the actual getting the H-1B visa 00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:37.330 align:middle line:84% stamp, which you have to do by going back to your country 00:15:37.330 --> 00:15:39.600 align:middle line:90% and going to the Embassy. 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:41.880 align:middle line:10% So how has your experience been at Western 00:15:41.880 --> 00:15:43.950 align:middle line:10% as an international faculty? 00:15:43.950 --> 00:15:45.690 align:middle line:10% It's very different from UNC, which 00:15:45.690 --> 00:15:49.320 align:middle line:10% has a larger sort of body of international students 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:53.050 align:middle line:10% and faculty, and Western doesn't have as much. 00:15:53.050 --> 00:15:55.650 align:middle line:10% So what's your experience been in terms of support 00:15:55.650 --> 00:15:56.865 align:middle line:10% for an international faculty? 00:15:56.865 --> 00:16:00.150 align:middle line:90% 00:16:00.150 --> 00:16:03.350 align:middle line:84% I think Western is, like you said, 00:16:03.350 --> 00:16:08.790 align:middle line:84% a really different institution than UNC. 00:16:08.790 --> 00:16:13.470 align:middle line:84% And so it also has fewer resources available to it. 00:16:13.470 --> 00:16:18.300 align:middle line:84% But in that way, I have felt like a lack of support 00:16:18.300 --> 00:16:20.280 align:middle line:90% for international faculty. 00:16:20.280 --> 00:16:22.380 align:middle line:84% It's not even that there isn't support 00:16:22.380 --> 00:16:25.910 align:middle line:84% for international faculty, it's just that it's not 00:16:25.910 --> 00:16:28.040 align:middle line:90% something people consider. 00:16:28.040 --> 00:16:32.570 align:middle line:84% Whether it's your department or your college, 00:16:32.570 --> 00:16:34.430 align:middle line:84% the fact that you are international 00:16:34.430 --> 00:16:39.520 align:middle line:84% or you're on a visa isn't even part of any conversation. 00:16:39.520 --> 00:16:45.590 align:middle line:84% I think there's a lack of awareness almost about it. 00:16:45.590 --> 00:16:50.740 align:middle line:10% So you said that there were two aspects to the H-1B visa, 00:16:50.740 --> 00:16:52.360 align:middle line:10% one was getting the approval, and then 00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:56.290 align:middle line:10% the other one is getting the visa itself. 00:16:56.290 --> 00:17:01.270 align:middle line:10% And you've finished your one year of OPT. 00:17:01.270 --> 00:17:03.910 align:middle line:10% So what happens right now? 00:17:03.910 --> 00:17:06.160 align:middle line:10% Are you not able to travel back to Pakistan? 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:08.170 align:middle line:10% You need to visit a consulate. 00:17:08.170 --> 00:17:13.240 align:middle line:10% So what happens to your work situation in Western 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:15.089 align:middle line:10% in the middle of a pandemic? 00:17:15.089 --> 00:17:18.369 align:middle line:10% Right, so I think that my case is particularly tricky. 00:17:18.369 --> 00:17:23.290 align:middle line:84% Because I was lucky enough that my approval was processed 00:17:23.290 --> 00:17:26.319 align:middle line:84% right before the pandemic happened and everything 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:27.710 align:middle line:90% shut down. 00:17:27.710 --> 00:17:30.670 align:middle line:84% So I have the approval to work in the US, 00:17:30.670 --> 00:17:36.010 align:middle line:84% but I wasn't able to go back home to get my visa. 00:17:36.010 --> 00:17:41.930 align:middle line:84% And so now I guess I'm legally here and working, 00:17:41.930 --> 00:17:44.230 align:middle line:84% but because I don't have a visa, I 00:17:44.230 --> 00:17:47.590 align:middle line:84% can't leave the US because then I re-enter. 00:17:47.590 --> 00:17:51.250 align:middle line:84% Because you can't enter the US without a visa, and so 00:17:51.250 --> 00:17:53.230 align:middle line:90% I wouldn't be able to come back. 00:17:53.230 --> 00:17:56.160 align:middle line:90% And so therefore, I'm here. 00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:57.370 align:middle line:90% I can't go home. 00:17:57.370 --> 00:17:59.580 align:middle line:84% Forget seeing my family, I can't go home 00:17:59.580 --> 00:18:01.316 align:middle line:90% for research or anything. 00:18:01.316 --> 00:18:04.560 align:middle line:90% 00:18:04.560 --> 00:18:10.560 align:middle line:10% So how do you think you will navigate the situation? 00:18:10.560 --> 00:18:12.860 align:middle line:10% You're legal to work right now, but are you 00:18:12.860 --> 00:18:17.240 align:middle line:10% still legal to work without the visa, say, one year from now? 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:19.190 align:middle line:90% I have no idea. 00:18:19.190 --> 00:18:21.770 align:middle line:84% And so I think that's been the most stressful part, 00:18:21.770 --> 00:18:27.140 align:middle line:84% because I have the approval to work right now, 00:18:27.140 --> 00:18:28.550 align:middle line:90% but you don't know-- 00:18:28.550 --> 00:18:29.990 align:middle line:90% or at least I don't know-- 00:18:29.990 --> 00:18:34.670 align:middle line:84% if the administration decides to cancel those approvals, 00:18:34.670 --> 00:18:38.840 align:middle line:84% if you don't have a visa, or if they extend the executive order 00:18:38.840 --> 00:18:44.300 align:middle line:84% that suspended work visas, if they extend it into the future, 00:18:44.300 --> 00:18:47.240 align:middle line:84% what does that mean for me specifically? 00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:50.330 align:middle line:84% Do I want to be in the US when I can't 00:18:50.330 --> 00:18:53.960 align:middle line:84% leave to do any of my research or to see 00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:59.100 align:middle line:84% my family for not just these six months, but a much longer time? 00:18:59.100 --> 00:19:00.790 align:middle line:84% So yeah, I have no idea what it means 00:19:00.790 --> 00:19:04.080 align:middle line:84% or if I will have a job in a year. 00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:06.060 align:middle line:10% So as of now, it almost seems like the choice 00:19:06.060 --> 00:19:11.200 align:middle line:10% is between having your career and then seeing your family. 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:13.598 align:middle line:10% And what about the executive orders? 00:19:13.598 --> 00:19:14.890 align:middle line:10% Have you been affected by them? 00:19:14.890 --> 00:19:16.600 align:middle line:10% There have been some for students too, 00:19:16.600 --> 00:19:19.600 align:middle line:10% which was recently rescinded. 00:19:19.600 --> 00:19:23.380 align:middle line:10% And how did Western respond to that? 00:19:23.380 --> 00:19:26.270 align:middle line:84% Yeah, so I have definitely been affected 00:19:26.270 --> 00:19:29.030 align:middle line:84% by the executive order, because the executive order that's 00:19:29.030 --> 00:19:34.310 align:middle line:84% still in place is the one that is suspending the issuance 00:19:34.310 --> 00:19:37.190 align:middle line:90% of any new each H-1B visas. 00:19:37.190 --> 00:19:41.300 align:middle line:84% So that means I can't get a visa right now, 00:19:41.300 --> 00:19:44.208 align:middle line:84% whereas the international student one, he made the order 00:19:44.208 --> 00:19:45.250 align:middle line:90% but then he took it back. 00:19:45.250 --> 00:19:49.380 align:middle line:90% 00:19:49.380 --> 00:19:52.250 align:middle line:10% So tell me a little bit about your research. 00:19:52.250 --> 00:19:56.810 align:middle line:10% And I know you've been hired at Western for research. 00:19:56.810 --> 00:20:01.540 align:middle line:10% And how does the pandemic affect your work then? 00:20:01.540 --> 00:20:04.970 align:middle line:84% Yeah so my research is all international. 00:20:04.970 --> 00:20:08.150 align:middle line:84% A lot, I have a project that I have to do in Pakistan, 00:20:08.150 --> 00:20:10.580 align:middle line:84% and then I was hoping to start a new project that 00:20:10.580 --> 00:20:15.570 align:middle line:84% was a comparative project with Pakistan, India, 00:20:15.570 --> 00:20:20.480 align:middle line:84% or just South Asia with Latin America, so Mexico, Ecuador. 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:24.200 align:middle line:84% And of course now, I can't start that or even develop 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:25.270 align:middle line:90% that project. 00:20:25.270 --> 00:20:27.530 align:middle line:84% And the project in Pakistan, I was 00:20:27.530 --> 00:20:32.030 align:middle line:84% supposed to be back this summer going to the scene 00:20:32.030 --> 00:20:33.260 align:middle line:90% to do a survey. 00:20:33.260 --> 00:20:34.190 align:middle line:90% I can't do that. 00:20:34.190 --> 00:20:42.130 align:middle line:84% So yes, I have to redesign my entire research trajectory. 00:20:42.130 --> 00:20:47.410 align:middle line:10% That's very big, redesigning your entire research project. 00:20:47.410 --> 00:20:49.480 align:middle line:10% Yes it is. 00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:55.380 align:middle line:84% And I think because of coronavirus and the pandemic 00:20:55.380 --> 00:20:59.880 align:middle line:84% and having to teach online, at Western told 00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:00.870 align:middle line:90% assistant professors. 00:21:00.870 --> 00:21:04.560 align:middle line:84% There there's this understanding that your tenure clock has 00:21:04.560 --> 00:21:07.650 align:middle line:84% been moved forward a year, and you 00:21:07.650 --> 00:21:11.310 align:middle line:84% weren't required to have your teaching evaluations, etc. 00:21:11.310 --> 00:21:15.210 align:middle line:84% But I think there is no conversation about what 00:21:15.210 --> 00:21:18.270 align:middle line:84% do we do, or how do we-- or should we even-- change 00:21:18.270 --> 00:21:20.760 align:middle line:84% these requirements or expectations 00:21:20.760 --> 00:21:24.320 align:middle line:84% for people whose entire research project has been thrown off? 00:21:24.320 --> 00:21:28.338 align:middle line:90% 00:21:28.338 --> 00:21:30.380 align:middle line:84% And I think that probably has to do with the fact 00:21:30.380 --> 00:21:33.703 align:middle line:84% that no one even really-- like I said, 00:21:33.703 --> 00:21:35.745 align:middle line:84% no one really talks about international students, 00:21:35.745 --> 00:21:38.240 align:middle line:84% or I mean international faculty so much. 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:43.880 align:middle line:84% Because when this international student executive order happened, 00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:47.660 align:middle line:84% Western sent an email out to everyone in the university. 00:21:47.660 --> 00:21:51.020 align:middle line:84% But when the executive order happened 00:21:51.020 --> 00:21:55.160 align:middle line:84% that was concerning the work visas, we got an email, 00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:59.300 align:middle line:84% but it was just an email sent to the international faculty 00:21:59.300 --> 00:22:03.570 align:middle line:84% and staff at Western saying that Western supports us. 00:22:03.570 --> 00:22:08.880 align:middle line:84% But it wasn't even sent to the broader faculty and staff. 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:14.220 align:middle line:84% So no one really even knows properly what's happening. 00:22:14.220 --> 00:22:17.840 align:middle line:84% And so I think it's like the burden or the onus 00:22:17.840 --> 00:22:20.750 align:middle line:84% is on us to then have those conversations 00:22:20.750 --> 00:22:28.938 align:middle line:84% with our chairs, with our dean, or our fellow faculty members. 00:22:28.938 --> 00:22:29.730 align:middle line:10% That's interesting. 00:22:29.730 --> 00:22:31.272 align:middle line:10% So you're saying that there is this-- 00:22:31.272 --> 00:22:34.080 align:middle line:10% and despite the fact that compared to other universities, 00:22:34.080 --> 00:22:38.670 align:middle line:10% Western doesn't have as big an international student 00:22:38.670 --> 00:22:39.300 align:middle line:10% population. 00:22:39.300 --> 00:22:42.090 align:middle line:10% But why do you think there is the prioritization 00:22:42.090 --> 00:22:43.920 align:middle line:10% of the international students more 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:45.250 align:middle line:10% than the international faculty? 00:22:45.250 --> 00:22:50.670 align:middle line:10% I mean, both of them are assets to any educational institution. 00:22:50.670 --> 00:22:54.780 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I mean there's no way for me to know exactly why, 00:22:54.780 --> 00:22:56.577 align:middle line:84% but I would think it's partly like, 00:22:56.577 --> 00:22:57.910 align:middle line:90% you know international students. 00:22:57.910 --> 00:22:59.480 align:middle line:90% They bring in money. 00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:02.890 align:middle line:84% And so in that way, they play a big role. 00:23:02.890 --> 00:23:04.800 align:middle line:84% And I know Western has been trying to recruit 00:23:04.800 --> 00:23:06.850 align:middle line:90% more international students. 00:23:06.850 --> 00:23:12.210 align:middle line:84% I think also advocating for student visas is 00:23:12.210 --> 00:23:15.270 align:middle line:84% different from advocating for work visas, 00:23:15.270 --> 00:23:21.070 align:middle line:84% especially if it's work that is done by the upper middle class, 00:23:21.070 --> 00:23:23.250 align:middle line:90% or the educated class. 00:23:23.250 --> 00:23:25.820 align:middle line:90% 00:23:25.820 --> 00:23:31.160 align:middle line:10% So it seems like you have a PhD, and when you have a PhD, 00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:34.230 align:middle line:10% you're considered to have some kind of cultural capital. 00:23:34.230 --> 00:23:36.890 align:middle line:10% It's sort of the highest educational degree 00:23:36.890 --> 00:23:37.760 align:middle line:10% that you can get. 00:23:37.760 --> 00:23:39.350 align:middle line:10% It's sort of sought after. 00:23:39.350 --> 00:23:43.470 align:middle line:10% But with the H-1B situation with the executive order, 00:23:43.470 --> 00:23:46.220 align:middle line:10% it puts you in a very, very tricky position. 00:23:46.220 --> 00:23:48.260 align:middle line:10% So have you had times where you are 00:23:48.260 --> 00:23:54.440 align:middle line:10% sort of contemplating that even despite the PhD, being 00:23:54.440 --> 00:23:57.440 align:middle line:10% on this different kind of H-1B visa, 00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:00.050 align:middle line:10% you're still like any other immigrant. 00:24:00.050 --> 00:24:02.090 align:middle line:10% It's very common for the last two years, 00:24:02.090 --> 00:24:03.680 align:middle line:10% thinking about the wall, thinking 00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:08.180 align:middle line:10% about undocumented immigrants from south of the border, 00:24:08.180 --> 00:24:14.390 align:middle line:10% did you find yourself represented in the stories 00:24:14.390 --> 00:24:15.740 align:middle line:10% that you heard before? 00:24:15.740 --> 00:24:20.510 align:middle line:10% And right now, how do you feel compared to where you are? 00:24:20.510 --> 00:24:25.040 align:middle line:10% And what's the rhetoric around undocumented immigrants? 00:24:25.040 --> 00:24:27.080 align:middle line:84% Yeah I think first of all, I think 00:24:27.080 --> 00:24:29.390 align:middle line:84% it was a really big shift going from being 00:24:29.390 --> 00:24:33.080 align:middle line:84% an international student to an international faculty. 00:24:33.080 --> 00:24:35.370 align:middle line:84% I mean generally, you think that you will get your PhD 00:24:35.370 --> 00:24:38.720 align:middle line:84% and get a job and so there's going to be less precarity, 00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:43.640 align:middle line:84% but in a way, the F1 visa is more predictable than what's 00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:46.070 align:middle line:90% going to happen with the H-1B. 00:24:46.070 --> 00:24:49.800 align:middle line:84% And even something as small as the F1 visa, 00:24:49.800 --> 00:24:53.230 align:middle line:84% you get for a four to five year time period. 00:24:53.230 --> 00:24:56.450 align:middle line:84% Because of some issue between the US and Pakistan, 00:24:56.450 --> 00:25:00.860 align:middle line:84% I would have to in any case, under normal circumstances, 00:25:00.860 --> 00:25:03.840 align:middle line:90% renew my H-1B every single year. 00:25:03.840 --> 00:25:07.070 align:middle line:84% And so it's adding on the stressful layer 00:25:07.070 --> 00:25:10.520 align:middle line:84% of every single year, you are not 00:25:10.520 --> 00:25:14.850 align:middle line:84% exactly sure if it's going to happen or not. 00:25:14.850 --> 00:25:17.480 align:middle line:84% And I think as a student, I never really thought of myself 00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:19.800 align:middle line:90% as an immigrant in the US. 00:25:19.800 --> 00:25:23.600 align:middle line:84% But now that I am faculty and I have a job here, 00:25:23.600 --> 00:25:25.850 align:middle line:84% I definitely have started thinking of myself 00:25:25.850 --> 00:25:27.840 align:middle line:90% as an immigrant. 00:25:27.840 --> 00:25:30.920 align:middle line:84% And I think that realization really 00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:35.300 align:middle line:84% hit home when this whole executive order happened. 00:25:35.300 --> 00:25:39.140 align:middle line:84% And I had to, not the first time, but in 00:25:39.140 --> 00:25:44.740 align:middle line:84% a different way deal with the anti-immigrant stance. 00:25:44.740 --> 00:25:50.970 align:middle line:84% And it's been really difficult processing all of it 00:25:50.970 --> 00:25:52.930 align:middle line:84% and dealing with this uncertainty. 00:25:52.930 --> 00:25:58.590 align:middle line:84% But it's just made me think about the immigration 00:25:58.590 --> 00:26:02.620 align:middle line:84% narrative and experiences of undocumented immigrants. 00:26:02.620 --> 00:26:11.060 align:middle line:84% And I can't even imagine that level of uncertainty, stress, 00:26:11.060 --> 00:26:14.160 align:middle line:84% fear that someone has to navigate 00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:16.050 align:middle line:84% every single day of their life and just 00:26:16.050 --> 00:26:19.900 align:middle line:84% not knowing what's going to happen in your future. 00:26:19.900 --> 00:26:24.870 align:middle line:84% And so I think I was feeling, like in the last month or so, 00:26:24.870 --> 00:26:28.320 align:middle line:84% I was feeling really a little bit like angry, 00:26:28.320 --> 00:26:32.790 align:middle line:84% but also like, why are other people not speaking up 00:26:32.790 --> 00:26:33.510 align:middle line:90% about this? 00:26:33.510 --> 00:26:37.770 align:middle line:84% But I think it's like if you compare it, 00:26:37.770 --> 00:26:41.850 align:middle line:84% then other people right now are not even really speaking 00:26:41.850 --> 00:26:46.050 align:middle line:84% about what's happening in the detention centers or the wall. 00:26:46.050 --> 00:26:51.940 align:middle line:84% The anti-immigrant stance is so much bigger than this. 00:26:51.940 --> 00:26:52.440 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:55.160 align:middle line:90% 00:26:55.160 --> 00:26:59.030 align:middle line:10% So it looks like documentation also 00:26:59.030 --> 00:27:04.200 align:middle line:10% did not lessen the precarity of your situation. 00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:06.800 align:middle line:10% How is your family in Pakistan? 00:27:06.800 --> 00:27:11.860 align:middle line:10% How's the pandemic faring there? 00:27:11.860 --> 00:27:15.130 align:middle line:84% Yeah my family in Pakistan is OK. 00:27:15.130 --> 00:27:17.860 align:middle line:84% And most of my siblings are all over the world, 00:27:17.860 --> 00:27:19.400 align:middle line:90% but my mother is in Pakistan. 00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:23.400 align:middle line:84% And one of my brothers is, and my extended family. 00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:24.620 align:middle line:90% So they're doing OK. 00:27:24.620 --> 00:27:31.640 align:middle line:84% I think, as is the case almost everywhere, the number of cases 00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:32.900 align:middle line:90% is rising. 00:27:32.900 --> 00:27:36.800 align:middle line:84% Actually I know at least half my family, my extended family, 00:27:36.800 --> 00:27:42.410 align:middle line:84% has had COVID and thankfully it wasn't really that bad. 00:27:42.410 --> 00:27:44.930 align:middle line:84% They all had a fever and then got better. 00:27:44.930 --> 00:27:48.620 align:middle line:84% But I think they're trying to navigate it 00:27:48.620 --> 00:27:51.380 align:middle line:90% as best as they can. 00:27:51.380 --> 00:27:53.630 align:middle line:10% And what about the government? 00:27:53.630 --> 00:27:56.270 align:middle line:10% Are you also finding yourself comparing 00:27:56.270 --> 00:27:59.400 align:middle line:10% Pakistan's handling of the pandemic and US handling 00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:01.120 align:middle line:10% of the pandemic? 00:28:01.120 --> 00:28:02.770 align:middle line:84% I mean I think comparing Pakistan 00:28:02.770 --> 00:28:06.810 align:middle line:84% and the US is a little bit like apples and oranges. 00:28:06.810 --> 00:28:10.710 align:middle line:84% The US is the wealthiest country in the world, 00:28:10.710 --> 00:28:15.520 align:middle line:84% and so it has infinitely more resources at its disposal 00:28:15.520 --> 00:28:20.200 align:middle line:84% to respond to the pandemic than a country like Pakistan. 00:28:20.200 --> 00:28:22.600 align:middle line:84% I don't think Pakistan's response has been that great, 00:28:22.600 --> 00:28:26.650 align:middle line:84% but I am not doing any comparisons 00:28:26.650 --> 00:28:30.850 align:middle line:84% because I think similar to most other people, 00:28:30.850 --> 00:28:34.720 align:middle line:84% I'm still trying to process how the US is responding, 00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:36.193 align:middle line:90% or not responding. 00:28:36.193 --> 00:28:39.820 align:middle line:90% 00:28:39.820 --> 00:28:42.670 align:middle line:10% It's a question that I'm asking everyone in the series, 00:28:42.670 --> 00:28:47.050 align:middle line:10% and so was there a moment when you realized that you're living 00:28:47.050 --> 00:28:49.010 align:middle line:10% through a global pandemic? 00:28:49.010 --> 00:28:51.520 align:middle line:10% It's historic, so can you describe the moment 00:28:51.520 --> 00:28:52.840 align:middle line:10% if there was one? 00:28:52.840 --> 00:28:55.840 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I think for me there wasn't one specific moment. 00:28:55.840 --> 00:29:00.920 align:middle line:84% It's been a very slow and painful realization. 00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:07.060 align:middle line:84% I was definitely finalized or hit home 00:29:07.060 --> 00:29:10.270 align:middle line:84% when he passed the executive order. 00:29:10.270 --> 00:29:13.360 align:middle line:84% And just realizing that this was going 00:29:13.360 --> 00:29:15.770 align:middle line:84% to go on for I don't know how long, 00:29:15.770 --> 00:29:18.820 align:middle line:84% and I don't have any control over what's 00:29:18.820 --> 00:29:19.750 align:middle line:90% going to happen next. 00:29:19.750 --> 00:29:24.050 align:middle line:90% 00:29:24.050 --> 00:29:26.290 align:middle line:10% Well is there anything-- 00:29:26.290 --> 00:29:31.790 align:middle line:10% I think I've asked you a lot of questions and none of them 00:29:31.790 --> 00:29:34.000 align:middle line:10% were happy questions. 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:36.190 align:middle line:10% There was nothing more happy [AUDIO CUTS OUT] 00:29:36.190 --> 00:29:39.700 align:middle line:10% looks like there's a lot of uncertainty in your life. 00:29:39.700 --> 00:29:44.050 align:middle line:10% And I feel bad because the journey of an academic in ways 00:29:44.050 --> 00:29:46.930 align:middle line:10% gets worse after the PhD. 00:29:46.930 --> 00:29:48.310 align:middle line:10% Apparently. 00:29:48.310 --> 00:29:52.050 align:middle line:10% I mean, getting a tenure track job is a big deal, 00:29:52.050 --> 00:29:58.932 align:middle line:10% and you have that, but it still hasn't helped. 00:29:58.932 --> 00:30:00.150 align:middle line:10% So-- 00:30:00.150 --> 00:30:04.580 align:middle line:10% The weather is finally nice in Bellingham, so there is that. 00:30:04.580 --> 00:30:05.820 align:middle line:10% There's that. 00:30:05.820 --> 00:30:07.060 align:middle line:10% Well that's great. 00:30:07.060 --> 00:30:11.620 align:middle line:10% Is there anything else you would like to share with the audience 00:30:11.620 --> 00:30:16.060 align:middle line:10% or for future whoever will be listening to you? 00:30:16.060 --> 00:30:17.850 align:middle line:10% No, I don't think so. 00:30:17.850 --> 00:30:18.560 align:middle line:10% Is that it? 00:30:18.560 --> 00:30:19.060 align:middle line:10% OK. 00:30:19.060 --> 00:30:21.730 align:middle line:10% Thank you so much Batool for taking the time 00:30:21.730 --> 00:30:25.300 align:middle line:10% to join this interview series. 00:30:25.300 --> 00:30:27.480 align:middle line:10% And I'll hand it over Athena. 00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:30.615 align:middle line:10% And I really encourage everyone who's 00:30:30.615 --> 00:30:31.990 align:middle line:10% attending-- thank you for coming. 00:30:31.990 --> 00:30:37.040 align:middle line:10% And please I encourage to have a conversation with Batool. 00:30:37.040 --> 00:30:39.430 align:middle line:10% Ask some questions if you want to. 00:30:39.430 --> 00:30:41.050 align:middle line:90% Yes please, thank you. 00:30:41.050 --> 00:30:44.467 align:middle line:84% I did make it so that you could unmute yourselves and ask 00:30:44.467 --> 00:30:45.800 align:middle line:90% any questions that you may have. 00:30:45.800 --> 00:30:49.723 align:middle line:90% We would love to hear from you. 00:30:49.723 --> 00:30:52.140 align:middle line:10% And either you can put your questions in the chat, 00:30:52.140 --> 00:30:57.850 align:middle line:10% or you have to turn the video on, or maybe 00:30:57.850 --> 00:30:59.805 align:middle line:10% just start speaking. 00:30:59.805 --> 00:31:04.140 align:middle line:90% 00:31:04.140 --> 00:31:06.330 align:middle line:10% Amber, you have a question? 00:31:06.330 --> 00:31:07.970 align:middle line:10% I always have a question. 00:31:07.970 --> 00:31:14.860 align:middle line:84% [LAUGHS] Hi Batool, thank you so much for sharing your story. 00:31:14.860 --> 00:31:16.110 align:middle line:90% It's really moving. 00:31:16.110 --> 00:31:21.410 align:middle line:84% And I was just reflecting on the precarity 00:31:21.410 --> 00:31:22.960 align:middle line:90% that you're describing. 00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:26.240 align:middle line:84% As if the life of a tenure track assistant professor 00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:30.530 align:middle line:84% isn't precarious enough, to also be managing distance 00:31:30.530 --> 00:31:32.340 align:middle line:84% and the uncertainty of the pandemic-- 00:31:32.340 --> 00:31:35.150 align:middle line:84% and I partly just wanted to say congratulations 00:31:35.150 --> 00:31:38.510 align:middle line:84% on winning the tenure track job lottery. 00:31:38.510 --> 00:31:43.580 align:middle line:84% That's a big deal, and I hope that you find that support 00:31:43.580 --> 00:31:44.820 align:middle line:90% from among your colleagues. 00:31:44.820 --> 00:31:48.860 align:middle line:84% I was really struck by what you described 00:31:48.860 --> 00:31:52.460 align:middle line:84% about starting to see yourself as an immigrant 00:31:52.460 --> 00:31:56.780 align:middle line:84% and then seeing your experience reflected in other people's 00:31:56.780 --> 00:32:00.980 align:middle line:84% experiences I wonder if you can talk a little bit more 00:32:00.980 --> 00:32:03.470 align:middle line:84% about that transition, what it means 00:32:03.470 --> 00:32:06.820 align:middle line:84% for you to start to think of yourself as an immigrant, 00:32:06.820 --> 00:32:12.620 align:middle line:84% and really whether you envision staying in the US 00:32:12.620 --> 00:32:17.540 align:middle line:84% as a permanent possibility for you. 00:32:17.540 --> 00:32:23.780 align:middle line:10% Yeah I think I felt more like an immigrant now than earlier just 00:32:23.780 --> 00:32:27.200 align:middle line:10% because once you get a job, it feels 00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:31.730 align:middle line:10% like you're part of like society in a different way than when 00:32:31.730 --> 00:32:35.300 align:middle line:10% you were just a student in a university somewhere. 00:32:35.300 --> 00:32:38.370 align:middle line:84% And so it's like I'm part of the economy. 00:32:38.370 --> 00:32:39.510 align:middle line:90% I have a job. 00:32:39.510 --> 00:32:42.120 align:middle line:84% I think the idea of getting this tenure track job 00:32:42.120 --> 00:32:47.990 align:middle line:84% is so that I can sort of settle down and stay in one place 00:32:47.990 --> 00:32:51.720 align:middle line:84% and build a home or find community. 00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:54.890 align:middle line:84% And so I think it was this shift in thinking 00:32:54.890 --> 00:32:58.980 align:middle line:84% about the US as the place that I was going to be long term. 00:32:58.980 --> 00:33:00.100 align:middle line:90% That made it happen. 00:33:00.100 --> 00:33:02.900 align:middle line:84% And then I forget the second part of your question? 00:33:02.900 --> 00:33:05.640 align:middle line:90% 00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:10.920 align:middle line:84% I just was wondering whether considering all the challenges 00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:13.170 align:middle line:84% that you've experienced, especially in the last year-- 00:33:13.170 --> 00:33:16.410 align:middle line:84% I mean, I know you've been in the US for a long time 00:33:16.410 --> 00:33:18.690 align:middle line:84% off and on throughout your education-- 00:33:18.690 --> 00:33:20.940 align:middle line:84% whether you envision staying in the US 00:33:20.940 --> 00:33:23.230 align:middle line:84% as a long term possibility for you. 00:33:23.230 --> 00:33:25.840 align:middle line:84% Is it something that-- really I guess, considering all this, 00:33:25.840 --> 00:33:28.550 align:middle line:90% is that something that you want? 00:33:28.550 --> 00:33:31.030 align:middle line:84% Yeah so I think I'm going to try to process 00:33:31.030 --> 00:33:36.240 align:middle line:84% all of that side of it right now, because I think definitely 00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:37.860 align:middle line:90% that was my plan. 00:33:37.860 --> 00:33:41.730 align:middle line:84% And I think now it almost feels like it's not even up to me 00:33:41.730 --> 00:33:42.930 align:middle line:90% anymore. 00:33:42.930 --> 00:33:46.590 align:middle line:84% There's a really strong possibility that in six months, 00:33:46.590 --> 00:33:50.130 align:middle line:84% I find out that I have to leave the country. 00:33:50.130 --> 00:33:53.820 align:middle line:84% And so of course, when you have that very, very real 00:33:53.820 --> 00:33:56.720 align:middle line:84% possibility right in front of you, 00:33:56.720 --> 00:33:59.820 align:middle line:84% you have to think about where else can I go? 00:33:59.820 --> 00:34:02.790 align:middle line:84% Or what's my plan going to be if this doesn't work out? 00:34:02.790 --> 00:34:08.530 align:middle line:90% 00:34:08.530 --> 00:34:09.280 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:10.449 align:middle line:90% Thank you, Amber. 00:34:10.449 --> 00:34:11.733 align:middle line:90% You were missed on Thursday. 00:34:11.733 --> 00:34:13.150 align:middle line:84% You ask such thoughtful questions. 00:34:13.150 --> 00:34:14.929 align:middle line:84% I notice when you're not with us. 00:34:14.929 --> 00:34:17.889 align:middle line:84% So I just wanted you to know we appreciate your thoughts 00:34:17.889 --> 00:34:18.590 align:middle line:90% and questions. 00:34:18.590 --> 00:34:19.920 align:middle line:90% So thank you. 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:20.650 align:middle line:90% Thanks. 00:34:20.650 --> 00:34:21.969 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:34:21.969 --> 00:34:23.980 align:middle line:90% Yeah, is there anybody else? 00:34:23.980 --> 00:34:25.190 align:middle line:90% Anything they wanted to ask? 00:34:25.190 --> 00:34:27.940 align:middle line:84% Or like we were saying, if you'd feel more comfortable 00:34:27.940 --> 00:34:29.750 align:middle line:84% in the chat, I'll give you all a moment. 00:34:29.750 --> 00:34:31.375 align:middle line:84% I know sometimes it takes a minute also 00:34:31.375 --> 00:34:34.120 align:middle line:90% to reach the unmute button. 00:34:34.120 --> 00:34:36.406 align:middle line:90% So I'll just wait a second. 00:34:36.406 --> 00:34:37.290 align:middle line:90% Anybody? 00:34:37.290 --> 00:34:40.659 align:middle line:90% 00:34:40.659 --> 00:34:42.380 align:middle line:90% Well thank you to you all. 00:34:42.380 --> 00:34:44.350 align:middle line:84% Thank you so much for being here today. 00:34:44.350 --> 00:34:45.100 align:middle line:90% This is wonderful. 00:34:45.100 --> 00:34:49.690 align:middle line:84% Another insightful and wonderful conversation. 00:34:49.690 --> 00:34:51.850 align:middle line:84% Thank you, Dharitri for bringing this together, 00:34:51.850 --> 00:34:54.969 align:middle line:84% and Batool for another great session of Stories to Tell. 00:34:54.969 --> 00:34:56.770 align:middle line:84% And I'll hand it over to you Dharitri 00:34:56.770 --> 00:34:59.740 align:middle line:84% to talk about what's to come and for others 00:34:59.740 --> 00:35:02.390 align:middle line:84% that want to join us in the future. 00:35:02.390 --> 00:35:04.450 align:middle line:10% So thank you for coming. 00:35:04.450 --> 00:35:07.900 align:middle line:10% Our series will go on for two to three more weeks, 00:35:07.900 --> 00:35:09.670 align:middle line:10% and give an excellent lineup. 00:35:09.670 --> 00:35:11.290 align:middle line:10% So please keep coming back. 00:35:11.290 --> 00:35:12.970 align:middle line:10% Talk to your friends, colleagues, 00:35:12.970 --> 00:35:16.270 align:middle line:10% and encourage them to join if they have the time. 00:35:16.270 --> 00:35:19.060 align:middle line:10% And on a very different note, the background 00:35:19.060 --> 00:35:21.070 align:middle line:10% that you see for Batool Zaidi, that's 00:35:21.070 --> 00:35:23.680 align:middle line:10% actually not a Zoom background. 00:35:23.680 --> 00:35:26.020 align:middle line:10% It's an artwork by her mom. 00:35:26.020 --> 00:35:28.367 align:middle line:10% And I just-- 00:35:28.367 --> 00:35:29.950 align:middle line:10% I mean, she just told me right before. 00:35:29.950 --> 00:35:31.960 align:middle line:10% And since then I've been constantly looking 00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:32.840 align:middle line:10% at the painting. 00:35:32.840 --> 00:35:37.020 align:middle line:10% So I just thought it deserves mention. 00:35:37.020 --> 00:35:40.720 align:middle line:10% And thank you for coming and listening to this. 00:35:40.720 --> 00:35:43.120 align:middle line:10% And Batool, thanks again for sharing your time. 00:35:43.120 --> 00:35:43.640 align:middle line:10% Thank you. 00:35:43.640 --> 00:35:44.902 align:middle line:10% Thanks for having me. 00:35:44.902 --> 00:35:45.610 align:middle line:10% Thank you, Amber. 00:35:45.610 --> 00:35:46.780 align:middle line:10% Thanks everyone for coming-- 00:35:46.780 --> 00:35:48.800 align:middle line:10% Hakeem, Ruth, everyone. 00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:49.300 align:middle line:90% 00:35:49.300 --> 00:35:50.590 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:35:50.590 --> 00:35:51.520 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:35:51.520 --> 00:35:52.360 align:middle line:90% Thank you, everyone. 00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:53.500 align:middle line:90% Wonderful to see you all. 00:35:53.500 --> 00:35:55.420 align:middle line:90% Have a wonderful afternoon. 00:35:55.420 --> 00:35:56.910 align:middle line:90% We hope to see you soon. 00:35:56.910 --> 00:35:58.460 align:middle line:90% Goodbye. 00:35:58.460 --> 00:36:15.000 align:middle line:90%