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Kamrun Nessa Mirza interview
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- OK.
- Hello.
- My name is Athena.
- I'm with Outreach and Continuing Education and Western C.A.R.E.S.
- here at Western Washington University.
- And I'll be acting as your host today
- for this session of Stories to Tell.
- Just a quick note right away, the interview today
- is being recorded and will be archived by the Center
- for Pacific Northwest Studies and the South Asian American
- Digital Archives, and they will be made available
- after for public research, teaching, and education.
- A bit about Western C.A.R.E.S. before we start.
- We started this as a resource for us
- to connect, share, and maintain our sense of community
- and engagement during these days where
- we're trying to stay home and stay healthy and take
- care of each other.
- These are online interactive sessions
- that are put on by your colleagues and peers who are so
- generously volunteering their time
- to share their interests and stories
- and experiences with you.
- As your host, I'm going to introduce your session,
- and then I'm here for any tech support you may need.
- Know that you entered the call today with your sound
- muted and your video off.
- Because we are recording, that helps
- us keep the video focused on the speakers.
- There will be time at the end, though,
- where I'll turn that on if you'd like to ask any questions.
- And if you're more comfortable using the chat feature,
- that is available as well.
- And we will be watching that.
- So thank you so much for joining us,
- and now I'm going to hand it over.
- Thanks.
- Thank you, everyone, for coming.
- Welcome to Stories to Tell.
- In this oral history series, our goal
- is to explore a diversity of South Asian perspectives
- on COVID-19.
- The region of South Asia comprises India, Bangladesh,
- Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan,
- Maldives, and Afghanistan.
- For the next three weeks, we will
- be bringing a new voice for you every Tuesday and Thursday
- at 2:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, where we'll be asking
- questions for 30 minutes.
- And after that, we really encourage
- you to ask questions to today's guest-- is Kamrun Nessa
- Mirza.
- Minorities and immigrants are routinely
- absent and underrepresented in archival connections.
- Hence, we cannot be more excited to be convening the series.
- I will be asking the questions, but a lot of people
- have put in their effort to make this happen.
- I want to especially acknowledge Athena Roth, who
- is Western C.A.R.E.S.' program specialist and the archivist
- at Center for Northwest and Pacific
- Studies, Northwest and--
- Northwest-- sorry, Pacific and Northwest Studies
- Ruth Steele.
- So thank you for joining us, Kamrun.
- And she will be talking to us about Spreeha
- among other things-- about Spreeha
- and also a community kitchen endeavor
- that I really found amazing.
- So welcome, Kamrun.
- Thank you.
- And I want to start by saying that you grew up in Dhaka,
- and I'm from Kolkata.
- And of the many gendered notions that I imbibed in childhood,
- one was that women cannot be engineers.
- And that was 1980s, but even contemporarily,
- we know there is this sort of ongoing conversation
- about women in science, women in STEM fields.
- So tell us a little bit about sort of Bangladesh,
- growing up in Dhaka, but also with particular emphasis
- on how did you get drawn towards engineering
- and also graduating from the top college in your country?
- So thank you, Dharitri, and thank you Western Washington
- C.A.R.E.S.
- Really appreciate your effort to reach out
- and share our experience during this difficult time.
- So my name is Kamrun Nessa Mirza.
- And I was born and raised in Dhaka, Bangladesh, the capital
- city.
- So while I was growing up, engineering
- is something that not a lot of girls
- would pursue as their career.
- But I was very interested to math and science
- from my early childhood.
- And I was raised in a multigenerational family
- with my siblings.
- We are five in number.
- And we have a lot of our cousins, relatives,
- grandparents living under the same roof like a typical South
- Asian family.
- And my dad used to encourage me a lot
- to pursue whatever I want to be in my life.
- And he wanted me to always think same as my brothers.
- So I never felt that I'm different as a girl
- in the household.
- And that instilled that sense of confidence.
- And I feel like if I like something, if I work hard,
- I would be able to do it.
- And so from the very beginning, if I have been told anything that
- I cannot do, it gives me an extra sense of urgency to work
- even harder to prove that we can do it.
- It may take more difficult. It may take harder work from us.
- We need to work harder, and pay more attention,
- and pay more due diligence.
- But it is doable.
- And from that childhood, I felt like it is true.
- If you work harder, you can achieve your dream.
- So how was your experience in your engineering college,
- though?
- Were there a lot of women in the college,
- and what was that experience like?
- Because engineering is still a very, very sort
- of male-dominated field.
- Right.
- So in Bangladesh there wasn't too many engineering colleges
- when I was growing up.
- So the top university, it's a merit-based,
- so from your grade 12 scores and everything,
- they select around 9,000 who can participate--
- or to apply or sit for the exam.
- And then there were at that time 550 positions,
- or seats in different departments.
- So it was very difficult.
- There will be 20 girls in a 220-plus-size classroom.
- So the percentage was very low.
- You are a very, very small minority group
- in the classroom.
- And the notion is that it was always a question that why
- girls are pursuing engineering?
- It's more like you are wasting a position that a boy could have
- pursued and could have raised a family,
- because eventually, you will not be pursuing or working
- as an engineer and you are just studying
- it to get married better, which is very common in South
- Asian culture at that time.
- Yeah, and I don't [AUDIO CUTS OUT] at that time.
- I think even now the belief is sort of very prevalent.
- So you did your bachelor's, your engineering degree,
- and then you came to the US.
- Tell us a little bit about your degree here.
- And then I really want to know about your experience
- at Texas Instruments, because I'm not an engineer,
- but I know that it's one of the sort of most
- sought after semiconductor technology companies
- to get into.
- Right.
- So after graduating to pursue my masters--
- and I was in a PhD program.
- I couldn't finish it then.
- Took my master's degree in microelectronics
- from University of Texas in Dallas.
- And it's called UTD.
- After graduating from there, it was in 2004 right after 9/11
- in 2001.
- So the economy and the overall job situation
- was very difficult for anybody to get into it.
- But I was able to secure an interview, get hired.
- And after hiring, I see a lot of engineers in the whole company,
- but when you work in your group settings,
- again, you see the same as your engineering school
- experiences--
- always minority, always the single female engineer
- on the team.
- But growing up in a developing country being
- in the engineering field, we developed a thick skin
- and a lot of tolerance.
- And developing some real skills--
- how to survive in any kind of environment,
- whether it be male-dominated or any kind of challenges
- are thrown at you.
- So with the help from the co-workers, and mentors,
- and other female engineers from the company,
- I was able to survive.
- I worked there for 11-plus years.
- And it was before the hashtag or #MeToo movement.
- So environment was different.
- I would say things are much better.
- I wish I was in that environment till now,
- to see how it is these days.
- But from all the blogs and all the experiences
- I hear from my junior engineering friends,
- it is much better, I would say.
- We have to go through a lot of comments, and a lot of remarks,
- and a lot of discussions that we're really not in favor.
- You can clearly feel that you are being cornered
- or not treated properly.
- But at that time, for me, I can tell I didn't have the training
- or I didn't have the knowledge that I
- can protest to those things or I can say something about those.
- I just took it as I were in my own country, like I
- have to tolerate it, and look beyond those things,
- and focus on my goal, and perform similarly or even
- better than my male counterparts.
- So it looks like more than your work, your gender,
- sort of that becomes focus of the discussion.
- So you were in Texas then.
- And then that's a Texas Instruments experience.
- And then you moved to Seattle.
- When did you move to Seattle?
- So I moved to Seattle in 2014.
- While working in Texas Instruments, I had two kids.
- And during those time, that job in engineering
- is when you work in a company where the teams are
- spread all over the world.
- Like, I have team in Germany, I have team in India,
- and then I have team in Texas, and also in Japan.
- So I felt like that work is around the clock.
- And it can be a personal thing, but I never
- felt like I can manage my work-life balance very well.
- And it was taking a toll on my health as well.
- Because you know, lack of sleep and lack of rest
- and too much anxiety, I would say,
- always trying to prove that I can do,
- I can do what I'm supposed to do.
- So it was taking a toll.
- And after 11-plus years, I felt like I'm too exhausted
- and I wanted a break.
- So when we got an opportunity for my spouse, from Seattle,
- we took the opportunity and I took that as a break,
- as a career break.
- I had the opportunity to come and work
- remotely from San Diego, away from the family.
- I had offered those options.
- But I chose to be with my family,
- and enjoy my kids a little bit, and reset the clock
- to see how I feel, and take a good control of my life.
- I felt like I didn't have good control.
- So [? for ?] second career, you found community service.
- So tell us a little bit about Spreeha
- and what does it do as an organization.
- And it almost seems like another conversation I've had with you
- before, that it almost was sort of a healing place for you.
- So tell us a little bit about that.
- Sure.
- So when I was taking my break, I still
- have all the time in the world in my hand,
- because I'm used to being busy.
- So I got involved in all local community
- works, like PTSA and the religious organization,
- my mosque, volunteering in those places.
- And finally, I got introduced to Spreeha,
- a nonprofit organization.
- They have programs local.
- And the main beneficiary of the program is Bangladesh slums.
- So their vision is breaking the cycle of poverty.
- So when I was growing up, it was an urban location metroplex,
- but in any South Asian or developing countries,
- you will see slums very nearby to the big cities.
- So I had the experience how people live in those slums
- and how in a 5 feet by 5 feet tent, 5, 10 people
- are crumpled and living their life without their access
- to basic human things like sanitation,
- clean water, and those kind of things, let alone education.
- And when I found that this organization serves
- those kids in those slums, I felt
- like this is where I can really find
- some better purpose of my life.
- So growing up in Bangladesh as an engineer,
- the government of Bangladesh made the whole tuition free.
- On top of that, they provide scholarships for your pocket
- money and everything.
- So I always felt like I owe a lot to my country,
- because here, you will see biggest
- discussion within any students in any education
- is the tuition, the challenge.
- And from a developing country, the quality of education
- I got for free, I can really see the value in it.
- And I feel very obligated.
- I wanted to do something and give back to show my gratitude.
- And Spreeha gave me that purpose,
- because your beneficiaries are those kids in the slums
- as well as homeless people in Seattle or in Washington
- local communities.
- So I can connect to both the causes.
- And it makes my every single day a lot better.
- Thank you.
- That's so wonderfully put.
- And also thank you for underscoring
- that point, that there are all these developing
- countries in South Asia, that the kind of and quality
- of education that it provides, and almost for free, right--
- but tuition are such a big problem in the US,
- a big bone of contention between all parties,
- all kinds of politics.
- So thanks for underscoring that.
- So I know Spreeha therefore is giving you a chance,
- I think, to work for slums in Bangladesh
- but generally be involved in some kind of developing
- work for the country that you come from.
- But also, it helps you to serve locally.
- And that's how I got in touch with you,
- because I was fascinated by the work of the community kitchen.
- So maybe you can share that in particular.
- How did the idea come to you, to Spreeha,
- and how did you participate in that, the community kitchen,
- especially the work that it did during the pandemic?
- Sure.
- So in the area where I live, there
- is a church called United Methodist Church,
- and they have a program where homeless people will
- be considered as parking lot guests.
- And they will be parking their car on the parking lot
- and use the church as their facility
- to shower, to use the kitchen, to prepare their meal.
- So a lot of organizations are affiliated with those churches
- as a volunteer organization who come and donate for the dinner
- for those guests.
- And Spreeha got the opportunity to participate
- in those programs.
- I got involved because it is really difficult
- for our next generation and even for our own community-- when
- you are so affluent, everything is so easy for you.
- To understand how the community as a whole--
- not everybody is doing as good as you are.
- And you need to participate in those,
- lift them up, give a hand of help,
- and bring some relief to those community.
- Churches themselves cannot do that.
- Mosques cannot do that.
- So there is a lot of community involvement that is needed.
- And I particularly got involved because I
- wanted to teach my kids because they never experienced
- Bangladesh the way I did.
- So I am very thankful for what I have achieved in my life,
- but I wanted my kids to understand
- that it's the privilege-- what they are enjoying.
- And they need to develop this habit of giving back.
- So I encouraged all my friends and their kids
- to come and sit with the parking lot guests,
- look at their challenge, how they are working
- on the daytime, but at nighttime they're just living in the car.
- So it was OK, or it was, to some extent,
- manageable until the COVID hit.
- So during pandemic when we all are stuck,
- I keep thinking about how those people are
- staying in their car 24/7.
- Because I know the church will not
- be allowing them inside due to social distancing.
- So I tried to reach out to the volunteers
- and learned that they are still providing those meals.
- And as a community volunteer, I tried
- to bring awareness, using social media, to my community,
- that we all are complaining while we are staying
- in a huge house, or an apartment,
- or a big space where we can comfortably stay.
- But think about those people who just have to live in a car.
- And it was March.
- Winter was still there.
- And a lot of their cars are not even wind--
- I mean, they do not even have the windows.
- They have plastic wrap windows.
- And so you can imagine-- no heating and stuck in the car
- in COVID.
- And they have to be in that situation 24/7.
- So there was a huge support from the community that we received.
- And we were able to do many programs.
- Usually we do once a month donate the dinner
- to those [? forty ?] parking lot guests, but during the pandemic
- we were able to do it almost every week for quite some time.
- And that made a huge relief to the church
- and they were able to maintain the program.
- So I felt like the pandemic hit us
- in many different ways, which we do not anticipated before,
- but it also opened that together we
- can do things which we didn't know we could do.
- And so just to clarify, the church, however, I mean,
- they have the guests every day.
- And when you supplied the food, it
- was Spreeha was doing it one day,
- but there were also several other organizations
- that worked for the church.
- And so the guests are all being taken care
- of by different NGOs who are stepping up.
- Is that right?
- Right.
- Right.
- So there is a list of organizations
- who are continuously doing it.
- And if there is no sponsor on any given night,
- they will be living on the packed food.
- And we also donate those kinds of food--
- dry food that they can prepare instantly in the kitchen,
- because their exposure in the kitchen
- is also limited, maintaining social distancing.
- So what about your community?
- And your community I'm not necessarily implying
- has to be only from Bangladesh.
- And I understand from you that it is not.
- But how are your community in general,
- whether from Bangladesh or not, how
- are they doing, if you were to speak about them?
- Because again, the purpose of this series
- is to explore immigrant experiences as well.
- And if you could speak to that?
- So the Bangladeshi community in general
- is suffering in kind of a similar way
- as many other communities are doing.
- The difference-- sometimes I feel like we still
- try to be in touch with each other,
- so we are connected to some extent, one with the other.
- So if there is a community member
- who is being impacted by a job loss, or hourly salaries,
- or impacted by sickness, so far we
- didn't hear a lot of people impacted by COVID.
- But anytime a family is in need, I
- think the community tries to put together some relief to them,
- so they are not left out.
- And it is a very tight community,
- I would say, in a way that, to some way,
- we will know about the sufferings
- of the other families even though we are not
- in direct contact of them.
- There were some big celebrations that we
- have cultural like Bengali New Year
- and then we had our Ramadan.
- There will be Puja in the coming days.
- So these are big celebrations, and the community
- comes together in a big way to celebrate their life abroad.
- But due to COVID, all those celebrations
- are not going to happen the way it usually does.
- And it is a big adjustment from the community.
- But for the greater good and to follow
- the instructions of the governor,
- community is able to live by those rules.
- It's a huge, huge sacrifice because that's
- all they look for throughout the year.
- But they understand the need at this time,
- and they will follow all the rules of social distancing
- and be responsible citizens.
- Of course.
- So when you look at the handling of the pandemic,
- do you find yourself comparing, contrasting
- between how it's being handled in Bangladesh and in the US?
- Right.
- So like many of the immigrant families,
- we have two countries that we are nonstop tracking.
- During daytime we are hearing and tracking
- all the challenges in the US.
- And at nighttime, when it is daytime in Bangladesh,
- we are struggling with our friends, and families,
- and community over there.
- So it's two countries.
- The challenge is almost the same.
- But our one--
- Bangladesh is a developing country--
- lack of PPE, lack of testing, lack of health system.
- It's big time.
- So you worry constantly, especially for me.
- My parents are living there still.
- So I am constantly worrying about them.
- But people who are abroad, we all are trying to give back
- and do something about what the government cannot do.
- That's a big part of the immigrant families,
- like every other countries.
- We raise a lot of funds from our community,
- and we try to help our friends and families over
- there as much as we can.
- So our commitment is local as well as our own country
- as well.
- So it's two countries we are trying to keep track and do
- as much as we can.
- So was there a particular point when
- you realized that you're living through a global pandemic,
- like a historic pandemic?
- And if there is one, would you describe it for us?
- Sure.
- So I remember early March when all these news
- stories popping up.
- We were hearing all the stories on the media,
- and I just went to my daily grocery
- in one of the grocery stores one day.
- And I was alone but the way people were running next
- to me, all the empty shelves, nothing
- is available, even simple things,
- as simple as the toilet paper is not available.
- And then people are chasing each other
- to reach out the first thing they can get.
- I felt like I'm either in a war or in some real situation
- which I never experienced in my lifetime.
- And I was trying to tell myself that I
- need to grab whatever I can and leave that space
- and try to leave with minimal stuff that I can,
- so I don't have to go back and see those chasing.
- Because those are very scary.
- You felt very insecure then.
- Things you never experienced before.
- So that was the moment I realized that things
- are going to get a lot worse.
- Mm-hm.
- Is there anything else, Kamrun, that you
- would like to share with us?
- I really appreciate the opportunity
- you are providing in trying to reach out
- to different communities and try to document their stories.
- It really means a lot for our community.
- We are always seeing not all the positive news
- about different immigrant communities,
- how they are contributing, but we
- are proud to be part of this community we are living in.
- And we try to do as much as we can to make it better.
- Thank you for the opportunity.
- Thank you, Kamrun, for sharing your time and all
- your perspectives.
- They're so useful to just [AUDIO CUTS OUT]
- the pandemic and the several sort of [AUDIO CUTS OUT]..
- So thank you for that.
- And finally, we'll open it up for questions
- from the audience.
- And I know some of you.
- Some of you I don't.
- So thank you for joining, and I hope you continue to join us.
- And today let's ask Kamrun some questions if you have any.
- OK, we have a question here.
- "Thank you, Kamrun."
- No, not a question.
- OK.
- So Amber is saying--
- Ruth Steele ...
- "Thank you, Kamrun.
- Asking this via chat since there's
- a lot of construction noise.
- I want--" OK.
- So I'm going to read out the question, Kamrun.
- "I wondered, with your work with Spreeha,
- if there is a particular challenge
- that you think you will be working on
- in coming weeks and months as the pandemic continues?"
- Thank you.
- Yes.
- So we have our annual fundraiser coming in September.
- Like any other organization, corporation, or nonprofit,
- there is a fund.
- And based on that yearly budget and fund, we allocate projects.
- So our biggest challenge this year
- is the beneficiary or the number of people
- who need our help are, I would say, 5 to 10 times more.
- But due to our social distancing and all the restrictions
- we are in, we will not be able to do
- any in-person fundraising, which used
- to be a big event for the whole year,
- because that gives us the opportunity to project and plan
- the next year.
- So we will be doing it online using Zoom and other platforms
- that we can use remotely.
- That is the biggest challenge and uncertainty.
- And that is a big anxiety on all of us as volunteers.
- We are volunteers.
- No payment is involved.
- But we really want to reach out to whoever is in need of those,
- because it is life and death for them.
- And Kamrun, we have another question from Amber.
- Can you read it in the chat?
- Let me open the chat.
- I didn't have it.
- Oh, and Catalina writes, "thank you
- so much for sharing your story.
- You're an important role model for resilience,
- generosity, especially for women."
- I could not agree more, Catalina,
- and thank you for coming.
- Kamrun, could you see Amber's question?
- Yes.
- So thank you, Amber.
- So at the beginning, I mentioned that the family where
- I was born and raised, the philosophy that my dad gave me
- is that when there is a challenge,
- you need to try harder.
- Things will never get easier for you.
- So if you feel anything that seems absolutely impossible,
- maybe you didn't try hard enough.
- So that's the philosophy.
- And sky's the limit.
- Never restrict yourself.
- Never let anybody tell you what you can or cannot do.
- So I think pushing yourself, trying
- harder, improve your skills, I mean, do whatever you can do.
- Don't focus on the hurdles.
- Focus on the achievements, so that that will keep you going.
- I never felt, even working in engineering,
- that I'm a female and things done to me
- may not be things done to a male worker,
- because if you focus on those things,
- you do not make progress.
- Those limits you, to me.
- You need to focus on what you can do,
- how you can make yourself so much better that you cannot be
- dispensed or you cannot be ignored.
- So that's how I try to pass my values to my community.
- Don't focus on the negative things.
- I can be portrayed as a Muslim woman.
- I can be portrayed in many negative ways,
- but it is my challenge to myself to show everybody
- around me that being an immigrant,
- being a Muslim woman, being an educated
- engineer, being a mom of two kids, we can do good things.
- We can do better.
- That is how progress is made, to me.
- Thank you.
- Wonderful response, as usual.
- Juliette gives you a clap.
- Thank you, Juliette.
- I appreciate it.
- Thank you.
- OK.
- I think there's a--
- can you read the second question from Catalina?
- Sure.
- So how my children are doing.
- So I have a high schooler, ninth grader,
- and I have a fourth grader, a boy and a girl.
- It's very difficult to keep them socially isolated.
- Still positive, still motivated, still a little bit of progress
- even in summer on their academics.
- And the biggest challenge was what will be school in fall.
- So before joining this call, we got a confirmation
- from our Lake Washington School District
- that school will be fully online.
- So that's a huge relief for me as a parent.
- I really don't have much data to support
- that in-person schooling can be done at this point.
- All my research is telling me that we
- don't have enough data yet.
- Some countries tried and some of them had to stop it.
- So I believe let's take it easy.
- If the kids lost one year of proper schooling,
- if we try harder next year, we can make it up.
- But we all need to be healthy at this point
- and make each other less vulnerable, because you know,
- our kids are--
- I cannot even imagine that we will be taking risks with
- our kids.
- I'm trying hard.
- It's hard.
- It's hard to keep them at home, motivated, and positive,
- and hopeful.
- And Kamrun, the second part of the question, which
- Catalina, actually, I think she responded,
- but she can do so in more detail also.
- "I'm sorry, I didn't hear you.
- How you ended up in PNW?"
- So from Texas to Pacific Northwest,
- why did you move and how?
- Or why you chose ...
- The language is how you chose Pacific Northwest.
- We always wanted to explore the coastal areas,
- like East Coast or West Coast.
- So I have some, I would say, anxiety about snow.
- So when we got the opportunity from Seattle,
- even though rain was a big concern,
- we wanted to give it a shot.
- But like many others, we thought we would be coming to PNW
- and then we will be moving to California.
- But living here in six years, you love Washington so much
- and you are stuck.
- You cannot move anywhere else.
- So I mean, the beauty PNW offers to you,
- it's unbelievable, right?
- And the second part of your question, how I manage
- from immigrant perspective.
- So I think if any person, any human being know their roots,
- then it gives them an extra edge.
- Like my kids, we are from Bangladesh,
- so I always try to take them to Bangladesh,
- meet their grandparents, show their values,
- and they come and visit us.
- So they are getting exposed to not only US cultures, but also
- some Asian cultures, different languages.
- So I never mentioned it to you, Dharitri,
- but I run a language school here in Washington for my community.
- And during the pandemic, we are having
- 35 students who are learning our language online.
- So it's a huge achievement for us.
- And through that school, we teach about their roots,
- about our culture, so they can connect better
- with their grandparents.
- To me, it's very important.
- And I see all my nephew and niece
- who are young professionals.
- And they go back, visit our country.
- They go to the countryside and try
- to connect with the countryside people
- to understand their perspective of the world.
- And it's amazing.
- So I always find it as a strength.
- I tell my son that you are learning Spanish
- in high school, you are learning Bengali at home,
- you know English.
- So imagine how much you are learning just
- from having this exposure to four or five
- different languages.
- And then learn Arabic as part of our religion.
- So I always show them as these above-and-beyond things
- that they are doing.
- And I think they are very proud of their heritage as well.
- Thank you.
- And it's good to hear about your school.
- I'm tempted to enroll my child because--
- Kamrun is from Bangladesh.
- You're most welcome.
- I'm from Bengal in India, but we are both Bengalis.
- We speak the same language.
- You are most welcome.
- I would love to have her.
- Thank you so much, everyone, for asking the questions,
- your participation.
- And I think I'll give it over to Athena, if you have.
- And please continue to come.
- We have two more weeks, which is four more interviews.
- And after this, we are going to be
- sort of working on transcribing these videos,
- and they'll all be available.
- So yeah.
- Thank you again for coming.
- Athena, back to you.
- Thank you so much for another incredible conversation.
- Again, I'm grateful to be a part of it.
- Thank you.
- Today was wonderful.
- And I was going to ask you about the weeks to come,
- but you covered it, which is great.
- So yes, please do make sure to join us
- again for another wonderful conversation on Stories
- to Tell.
- Thank you so much to you both for today.
- Thank you.
- Thank you so much, Athena, for your support.
- Thank you.
- Oh, of course.
- Thank you.
- And thank you to our audience.
- You're very important to us.
- And we had wonderful questions today.
- Thank you.
- That was great.
- Good to see you all.
- And please do join us again.
- Have a wonderful afternoon.
- Thank you.
- Bye, everyone.
- Thank you.
- Goodbye
- Bye.