Search results

Result Limit

Sort

Display

(1 - 1 of 1)

Title: Frank and Jeanne Moore--August 22, 2011
Date: 2011-08-22
Description: Well-known fly fishers, and long-time owners of Steamboat Inn, a popular fly fishing destination on the North Umpqua River.
Digital Collection: Fly Fishing Oral Histories
Type of resource: text
Object custodian: Special Collections
Related Collection: Fly Fishing Oral History Program
Local Identifier: FFOH_MooreFrank_Jeanne_20110822
Text preview (might not show all results): Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections Fly Fishing Oral History Program Frank and Jeanne Moore ATTENTION: © Copyright Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections.
Show moreWestern Washington University Libraries Special Collections Fly Fishing Oral History Program Frank and Jeanne Moore ATTENTION: © Copyright Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections. "Fair use" criteria of Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976 must be followed. The following materials can be used for educational and other noncommercial purposes without the written permission of Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections. These materials are not to be used for resale or commercial purposes without written authorization from Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections. All materials cited must be attributed to Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections. This interview was conducted with Frank and Jeanne Moore on August 22, 2011, at their home in Idleyld Park, Oregon. The interviewer is Tamara Belts. TB: Today is Monday, August 22, 2001, and I am down here in—how do you pronounce this park? FM: Idleyld Park. TB: Idleyld Park. I am with Frank and Jeanne Moore, who are going to do an oral history with us. They did just sign the informed consent agreement, and now I am going to turn on the video, and we‘re going to roll. Our first question is always, how did you get started fly fishing? FM: Well basically my father was a fly fisherman in the 1920s, when I was first born. I was born January 30, 1923, and I was practically born on a fishing stream. My mother was very active in the outdoors also. Back in the 20s, my father would make his own rods, lines. He‘d build his own fly lines, even out of linseed oil and varnish and some old cuttyhunk line. So I had a good start that way. Every summer we would take off and travel to some place in Oregon or Washington where my father heard of a new fly fishing place, so I was very blessed in having a good start in fly fishing and loving God‘s gift of the great outdoors. JM: Tell them when you got your first fish-FM: Yes. When I was about three years old or four at the most, we were over by Neskowin on the Oregon coast; (we went over there where my father had a business in Carlton, Oregon). We went over there for the weekend, and he was up fishing in the mountains. I stayed down in Neskowin Creek and fished that with my mother, and I caught a bigger fish that day than he did. He caught more of course, but I had caught a bigger one, and he was very pleased about that. I guess that was a start, but I must admit that I did not catch that on a fly. Anyway, that was how my life got started in fishing, through my father. I had the misfortune of losing him, in 1932, I was only 9 years old, but the fishing was already ingrained within me. Even when I was a kid, I would still fly fish and loved every minute of it. 1 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED Then, when I was in the service in World War II, before the invasion, I actually got to fish in Southern England and fly fish in some of the streams, on the River Frome, I believe it was, which was close to our encampment there in Southern England, just off of the Port of Weymouth and Portland Harbour, where I shipped out of for Normandy. I got to fish there on this one beautiful little stream, the River Frome, and caught some beautiful brown trout there. That was the first time I fly fished in England, but I didn‘t get to do any more of it all through the rest of the war until I came home again. Came home and I didn‘t want to be regimented anymore, so instead of going back to school like I should have perhaps, I wanted to go into business for myself, so we bought a restaurant in Roseburg. With the help of Jeanne, my dear wife, I would go fishing whenever I had the opportunity and leave her running the business. I became so adept at fishing for steelhead on the North Umpqua that Clarence Gordon, who had the North Umpqua Lodge at that time, at Steamboat, wanted me to guide for him. JM: Well, you have to say, one of the reasons he wanted you to guide for him was because— FM: To get me off the river. JM: --to get you off the river, right; fishing and catching fish before his guests got a chance. FM: Yes. But anyway, that‘s where we got our start, and where I got my start fishing on the North Umpqua. But part of that time, as I said earlier, I‘d fished when my father was alive all over Oregon and Washington. One of our first dates that Jeanne and I went on, in the turn of the day, was a little fishing experience. JM: Yes, but we couldn‘t catch any fish so we ended up fishing for crawdads, which was fun. I actually caught some, because I never fished. My family didn‘t do any outdoor things like that. I was broken in by my husband, and I could tell you about my first fly-- I tried to fly fish, Frankie was just a baby, and we went up camping, and it was raining, and it was miserable, and we had a big tent or I‘d have been nuts, but that was before disposable diapers, and so we ran out of diapers, and the whole thing was just a wash out because I didn‘t know anything about camping. I couldn‘t start a fire, and he‘d go off fishing. When he‘d finally come back, he‘d build a fire and we‘d get something to eat, whatever. Anyway, we washed out on that trip. So we tried it again when the weather was better. And by this time, Frankie was standing on the bank, and he would cast-FM: Our boy, son, Frank. JM: --he‘d cast a stick. He would do what his daddy was doing. Frank couldn‘t stand it; he found a steel fly rod for his little boy. So at 15 months old, he had his first fly rod. At this time, Frank decided that we all had to go on the stream when he was going to go fishing, to keep his wife happy, I think, and so he put, let‘s see. He took a gunny sack, you know those big old potato gunny sack things, cut a couple holes in the bottom. We were staying at his old cousin‘s farm at that time, and he found a sheep skin, and he lined it with the sheep skin, and it was the first backpack. So he tied that around himself, some way or another, and he carried Frankie on his back, and I followed, carrying the dog over the logs and carrying the fly rods, or whatever. I carried something, and off we‘d go on the streams. He said to me, the first thing he said was, ― You just got to set the hook, if you feeling something, you got to set the hook.‖ So, by golly, something took my fly, and I set that hook, and that fly went flying, that poor fish flew through the air and hit the rocks behind us and smashed it to death. FM: It travelled through the air probably 60 to 100 feet, just a small, little, tiny fish. 2 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED JM: And it was as a dead as a door nail, so there wasn‘t any releasing of it, that‘s for sure. So I wasn‘t very good, but I did try. That was our beginning of fly fishing. TB: We talked a little bit about this, but tell me a little bit more about your guiding, how you got started guiding? FM: Well, I‘d been fishing there at Steamboat, and Clarence Gordon, who had the lodge at that time, his clients of course came from all over the world, and so I became acquainted with all these people, and they enjoyed being with me very much. Then when Clarence closed his North Umpqua Lodge down in 1951, they had no place to come on the North Umpqua except the Circle H Lodge , which was about 10 miles down the river. JM: And the Idleyld Lodge; the Idleyld because that‘s where [they all] stayed. FM: At first they stayed at Mildred‘s, yes, Mildred Young, Circle H Lodge. Then she closed down in ‘53, I think it was, and so the people that used to stay with Clarence and Mildred didn‘t have any other place to go until we opened and built Steamboat Inn. We bought the old store there at Steamboat, and then we built what is now known as Steamboat Inn. We built the cabins and filed the assumed business name, the name of Steamboat Inn. All I had to do was call some of these people who used to stay with Clarence Gordon and immediately we had every cabin as soon as I could get it built would be full. The same people would come back year after year after year, for a week or two weeks, whatever, so it really was kind of nice to have a built-in clientele like right from the word go. JM: Yes, we never advertised it in anyway except by the word of mouth, all the years that we had the inn, never had to advertise. FM: But it was a wonderful experience, and we met some of the finest people in the world, and it gave our children the opportunity to see how everyone lived because we had people from every walk of life come and stay with us. We didn‘t charge very much, so some of the people on the lowest income could stay with us for a few days, you know. JM: Plus, the truckers would stop and have sandwiches, and that sort of thing, so they met everybody. FM: Yes, so it was a wonderful, wonderful life for us and for the children. It was a lot of work and long hours. In the summertime, we‘d have 18-20 hours sometimes. JM: Some of the fishermen‘s wives, they wanted things to do anyway, so I guess, so they would take our kids along with theirs and go up to the swimming pool up on Steamboat Creek, so the kids went swimming every afternoon. They‘d be there for hours, and the guests were our babysitters. TB: Nice. So talk about some of your clientele. I mean, I‘ve heard you talk a little bit about Zane Grey or his family; you had a relationship with Loren and Romer. FM: Yes, that was--the first time that I met Loren was back in, I think, about ‘48 or ‘49, and he had just been married to this— JM: Marcelle. FM: --other girl. JM: I can‘t remember Marcelle‘s last name. [Editors note: Marcelle Robinson] 3 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED FM: Marcelle. I can‘t either now. Anyway, they came and stayed there at Clarence Gordon‘s old place, and I‘d fished with Loren just a little bit, just to fish with him when I had the chance, when I wasn‘t guiding somebody. JM: They were both psychologists. FM: Yes, they were both psychologists. JM: So they‘d psychoanalyze each other. FM: That marriage didn‘t work out as, I‘ll be the judge. JM: Except when it was, it was really good. FM: She was a wonderful lady. JM: Yes, she was. FM: Loren was a good friend, and Romer was probably one of the most adept fishermen I‘ve ever seen in my life. I‘ve seen him crawl on his hands and knees for 100 feet so he wouldn‘t disturb a pool, disturb the fish in a pool and have them scared. Both of them were good casters. It was interesting to listen to them as they‘d describe some of their experiences when they used to travel around the world with [their] dad. They had a very exciting life also, but it was kind of tough on Loren because Romer was the apple of his dad‘s eye. JM: Yes, it‘s hard though being a child of a famous person. FM: It is, yes. JM: I feel sorry for the ones we knew. FM: Anyway, they were really good friends. Romer died a long time ago (March 8, 1976), but he used to call me up sometimes at 2 o‘clock in the morning, and I wasn‘t getting much sleep anyway, but he‘d call me up at 2 o‘clock in the morning and talk for hours. JM: On this old phone, you‘re standing up— FM: Screaming. JM: --trying to hear him, you know,-FM: But he would talk for hours. JM: --on that old phone. FM: Reminiscing and just—I think he was in his cups a little bit when he was doing it. But one thing that was interesting there was when we were down visiting the old homestead there at Pasadena— TB: And this is the Greys‘ homestead? FM: Yes. 4 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED JM: The Greys‘ homestead. FM: They used to call it that, but it was quite an establishment. But anyway, in one of the old freezers there, Romer still had a steelhead that he caught in 1937, I think it was, and this was in the 1950s. JM: Yes, he still had that old, dried up fish in the freezer, and he‘d go over and get it out once in awhile and look at it. Romer never threw anything away. All this stuff, all the camping gear, all this stuff was stored in one big room— FM: In the old mansion, yes. JM: --in that old place. The lady that bought that, she went and had to clear it out. She had quite a challenge. And this is interesting, this fellow that we know was a friend of the lady that bought that place, and so he came down and he just really understands the price and the value of fishing memorabilia, and so he went down to help her, he and his wife. He said that you can‘t believe how many dumpsters of things went out— Interruption, phone ringing JM: What‘s that? FM: The book. JM: The Zane Grey. FM: Those books. JM: Book, oh. FM: Sorry that happened. TB: That‘s okay. So you were talking about the woman who had dumpsters of stuff— JM: Yes, yes, all the old tents that they used to use for their campsites on the river were there. They were of course full of mouse holes, and old rugs, everything. There was nothing that he didn‘t just stuff in there. But also every bit of paperwork, anything like that, was just stacked. Well you can imagine what the value of some of that paperwork, but just a matter of sorting it out and getting it all straightened out, so. Anyway, thankfully, she got somebody that knew what the value was, so a lot of that stuff was saved. FM: And it was preserved. JM: Preserved, yes. Reels, all these old reels that he had used down in the South Sea Islands and— FM: And the old fighting chair that he used to use. JM: Yes, the fighting chair that was on his yacht. FM: Saved it all. TB: Just one question though, why was Romer the apple of his eye? 5 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED JM: Well he was older, quite a bit older, quite a bit older, seven years or something like that. FM: He was enough older that he— JM: That he was just able to go with his dad and do, you know, and his dad didn‘t consider Loren old enough. TB: Oh. JM: If it was like our kids, I suppose maybe Loren wasn‘t as responsible because he just was the tagalong, and he didn‘t quite know how to be what his dad wanted him to be. As I say, it‘s very hard to be a child of a famous man. FM: And too, Romer was a superb photographer and made quite a few movie shorts and things like that, and he loved to run rivers in boats, and he was just a very, very talented guy and an interesting man. Both of them were very interesting. Romer was more congenial with people, I may use that term. JM: Yes, Loren did not know how to get along with people very well. People usually kind of took a dislike to him because he seemed like he was kind of, I don‘t know, pushy, not pushy. He wasn‘t pushy, he just kind of expected things to be done for him, and it just kind of rubbed the wrong way, well, rubbed me the wrong way the first time I met Loren. I have to say, I thought, come on. He wanted a soft boiled egg, it was supposed to be a 3-minute egg, but it had to be 2 ¾, so it was just right. Well, I learned how to do the egg just right, but this one day I was so busy in there and I sent the egg out without taking it out of the shell. I just threw it in a little cup, you know, and he sent it back because he wasn‘t going to do that either. And you know, I thought, this man, how does his wife stand him? But, I had to get around that because there was more to Loren. He was really kind of a sad man, and before he died his wife had already, I think she was his best friend always, his second wife, and he told Frank this one time, he said, you‘re the only friend I have, Frank. And here we live up here, and he‘d just call once in awhile and talk, but how pathetic that is, just, you know. TB: Where did he live or where did they live? JM: He lived in— FM: Actually, out in San Fernando Valley there, Woodland Hills. JM: What‘s the name…Woodland Hills. TB: Okay. JM: The daughter just sold that house. FM: Yes, they just come up, when was it, in June, brought Loren‘s ashes up, and we put them up here on the river. JM: Was it Memorial Day? No, it was something else, 4th of July or something, it was some holiday that she was up here. 6 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED FM: Memorial Day. TB: Did you have any special ceremony that you did when you put in the ashes or just kind of--? FM: No. JM: We didn‘t know she was coming, so she called after she got up here, and so we had a house full of our family and everything, it was a holiday kind of, and so Frank, I didn‘t go along. I stayed with the family, and he went with them up there, and then they stayed here and had dinner with us, so that was nice and kind of a closure for her. That‘s the only birth child that Loren and Bonnie had, that Loren was the birth father of, was Jeri, and she has never married, so it‘s kind of the Grey name is kind of dying out. Romer didn‘t have any children. TB: So do you have some other stories about other well known people, and then one other story you have to tell me is the story of the naming of Jeannie‘s pool out behind the Steamboat Inn. JM: Oh. Well, Jack Hemingway, Ernest Hemingway‘s oldest son, he came often. The first time I ever saw him was when he was sitting at the table. Frank had seen him-- You‘d seen him some place before that. FM: I‘d met him early on, way back in the 1940s. JM: Had he come to the old lodge? FM: Yes, late 1940s. JM: You knew he was a Hemingway the minute you looked at him. So he brought his family up. There‘s another case, Jack would say, boy, I started out as the son of a famous man, he says, and I ended up being the father of famous daughters. But he was a good writer. He wrote several books. You can tell more stories about Jack than I can. FM: Jack was a good person, he really was. I enjoyed being with him. He was a very fine guy. He had— JM: That one year he decided that we had to have a 4th of July and we had to have fireworks, remember, and we spent the rest of the night putting— FM: --putting fires out. JM: --out there watching for sparks. That was the last time we had fireworks. FM: Yes, but now the Jeannie‘s Pool, you were going to tell them about that. JM: Well, there are other people to tell about too. FM: Yes, but she wondered about the Jeannie‘s Pool. JM: Well, Jeannie‘s pool was named because on our 25th wedding anniversary, Frank decided it was time to get serious about teaching me how to fish for steelhead, fly fish for steelhead, because we tried it way back in the early, early days when Frankie was about five. Frankie landed his first steelhead when he was five. 7 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED Anyway, so this one day, he decided, okay, Frankie was old enough to be on the bank, I don‘t know who was watching the other kids, and the water was so high they took me out in a canoe to the camp water, to the kitchen hole, and we get out of the canoe, and Frank‘s on one side of me and this other friend‘s on the other side of me, and the water is so strong because it‘s high that my feet didn‘t want to stay solid. They kind of go, you know, kind of like they was getting pushed, and he says, ― Okay, step down.‖ So, I‘m trying to step down, and he says, ― You are the worst wader I have ever had out here,‖ so that was the end of that experience. Then I‘m on shore with my little five year old, and I thought, well, I‘ll fish for trout, and I was playing around with it. Frankie says, Mom, you‘re breaking your wrist too much, or something, and I thought, this is too much, I just quit. So from then on, I just took knots out of lines and stuff, and I didn‘t do much in fishing until our-On our 25th wedding anniversary, Frank says, Okay, we‘re going to get at this, and this was the middle of January, but we dressed up and we‘d go out. My first fish was a sucker, in the confluence, and I was very proud of that fish. But we‘d go on and on, and I wasn‘t getting anything, and this one day he took me to a spot and had me up on this rock, and I cast and everything and did like he told me, and then he got up and cast. So I start walking along the little edge of the stream and off starts a fish, and I realize my fly had gone right over that fish. It had to have gone over that fish because even though I couldn‘t cast very far, it had gotten where that fish was. So then on, my attitude changed, and I realized I could catch a fish, yes I could. And there‘s a fish there someday that I would get. So, this pool that they call Jeannie‘s Pool was just down below the inn, and in those days you could go just down below the cabins and just work down the beach and get to it. You didn‘t have to go down the bluff from the highway. Since then, there‘s been a rockslide that makes it pretty hard to do, I think. But in those days you could do it. And because I was really interested in fishing by then, and the guests knew I‘d sneak down there in the evenings if I could, to try to fish, they would just leave that pool alone, so that it wouldn‘t be messed up. And I could have a chance at it if I could; so every so often, a few nights a week or something, I‘d get down there and I‘d fish, and that‘s where I landed my first steelhead, all by myself without anybody. TB: Excellent. JM: And I had a lot of adventures down in that little pool. There was one time it was otters. There were a couple otters that were just playing around in there, and they were calling to each other, and I thought it sounded like such a loud echo to me that everybody could hear it, but I don‘t think anybody did but me. And another time, I watched an otter catch a steelhead, right there out of my pool. TB: Wow. JM: The steelhead kicked its way loose, but he sure had a gouge in his side when he did. And I‘d take our daughter down there, and we would kind of creep up on it and drop a fly in there for trout. You could see, the water was so clear, you could see that trout come up all the way from the bottom. It was just a beautiful spot in those days. I don‘t know what it‘s like now because I don‘t go there anymore. FM: And the water‘s not as clear anymore as it used to be there. JM: But that‘s why it was named Jeannie‘s Pool because they all saved it for me in those days. FM: And it didn‘t have a name. JM: It didn‘t have a name and so it got named. 8 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED TB: Okay, well we were talking about Ernest Hemingway. I understand that you might have flown back to Idaho with Ernest‘s son Jack when Ernest Hemingway died. [July 2, 1961 in Ketchum, Idaho]. FM: Yes, he was there staying with us when— JM: Jack and Puck were there. FM: Yes, Jack and Puck, his wife, when Ernest shot himself. JM: They brought their daughters, always brought their three daughters. FM: They didn‘t have them there at that time. JM: They didn‘t at that time. It was just the two of them. FM: Yes. JM: Mariel was, actually-- Margaux was the middle girl [1954-1996]. She‘s the one that committed suicide, and Mariel, the youngest, is the one that‘s made the biggest name for herself [born 1961), and Muffet [Joan ― Muffet‖ born 1950], the oldest one, she was always kind of mixed up. FM: Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful girl. JM: Yes, she— I think she kind of had a nervous breakdown or something, I don‘t know. FM: Yes, I did. I flew Jack back to Ketchum. TB: Because you had a plane. FM: [Yes]. TB: Okay, and you flew back to Ketchum? FM: Ketchum, Idaho. Yes, we landed there on the golf course so we could be close to where Ernest lived, and so, yes, we were there. JM: Jack was a good friend— FM: He was. JM: --and he and Dan Callaghan, the friend that does the pictures all over Steamboat Inn that he did. He did these black and whites we have here too. Dan and Jack just fished all over the place together. FM: All over the world. JM: Yes, and we went back there, this one time we went back there to visit Jack and Puck, and he loaned you the snowmobile, and we were— FM: In the wintertime. 9 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED JM: In the wintertime, we couldn‘t make the turn, and it went into the creek, and my big strong husband managed to manually lift that thing out of the creek. I don‘t know how. FM: I don‘t either. JM: Gee, that was something else. Gosh, anyway. FM: One of the most famous stories with Puck, Jack‘s wife, there was this one week or two weeks that Jack‘s mother [Hadley Richardson] came up and stayed with her husband, Paul Scott Mowrer, who used to be the editor of the, I think it was the Chicago Daily News, I think, the big paper in Chicago anyway. But anyway, they came out and stayed there with us for a couple weeks, and Jack left taking care of his mother up to Puck entirely. JM: He just went off fishing. FM: He‘d go off before daylight and come back after dark. Well this one day, Jack borrowed this brand new fly rod I‘d had and had just been shipped to me, and it was at that time was probably the finest rod made. JM: Was it a glass rod? FM: It was a fiberglass. Anyway, well he came back in after being out all day; Puck had to take care of Hadley and Paul Scott Mowrer and was very frustrated. She got into her wine, cups of wine a little bit maybe, and so when Jack came in, he started giving her a bad time or something. She says, ― For two bits I‘d break your God damned rod!‖ So Jack just threw two bits on the bed, and she ran over and grabbed the rod and went (breaking sound), broke right over her knee like that. She said, ― What do you think of that?‖ And Jack said, ― I don‘t mind, but Frank‘s going to be mad when he finds out that you broke his best fly rod.‖ JM: And Frank told that story to— FM: To Sports Illustrated. JM: --to the Sports Illustrated guy, and Puck never forgave you for that story. FM: Margaux called up one day and— JM: ― Frank, mom‘s still mad at you.‖ Mom‘s sure mad at you for telling that story.‖ FM: --yes, ― JM: Well, then we had Jane Wyatt. A lot of people don‘t know Jane this day in age because they didn‘t live long enough. I mean, they haven‘t been born long enough, but she was the mother in the Father Knows Best series on television and was a very good movie actress in the 1930s— FM: Oh yes, she was in the original Lost Horizon with Ronald Colman, and she‘d won several Oscars. You‘d go down to her home, and she had Oscars lined up from one end of the— JM: But she was the sweetest woman in the whole world. FM: A wonderful lady. 10 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED JM: And she and her husband were married for 60 years, so she certainly didn‘t fit the norm for Hollywood marriages. TB: Well, was she the fly fisherman or he was? FM: He was. JM: He was. He was born, as he said, with a silver spoon in his mouth, so all he had to do was manage his money. FM: Or stocks— JM: Whatever. But he was very supportive of her. And she would go along with him on a lot of these-- She seemed to just love meeting people and learning about them. She‘d come up in the dining room and sit there at lunch time, and one time this one trucker came in, and he‘s sitting there at the table. She just got to talking with him about what his life was like, really, you know. I don‘t know how she, she just has that ability. People would just talk and talk and tell her. When he left, paid, when he was going out, he said, ― That lady seems really familiar,‖ and Frank told him who it was, and he just about died. FM: The first time I met Jane, I was coming back up from fishing the ledges, and she and her husband had just arrived that day. And anyway, she was walking the trail down below the old North Umpqua Lodge, and just in the trail just as I was running, and right in the middle of the trail in front of me was a little civet cat, one of those little spotted skunks. My foot was heading right for it, and she was coming up from the other way, and how in the world I managed to levitate enough that I missed that skunk I don‘t know, but I did. She commented on it when she said, ― That was amazing and very graceful.‖ That was the first time I happened to meet Jane, but boy if I‘d hit that thing I would have been a mess. JM: She took our boy and the son of one of our, we call our godfather, the old gentleman up in that middle picture. His grandson was there, and these two boys were 10 and 11, I think, and they decided to do a campout for a night. So Frankie ended up carrying most of the stuff up there. They hiked up to Boulder Flat, camped out all night, and they came back the next day. And the grandson got kind of nervous about being out there in the woods, I guess. She drew a line around the tent. She told them, ― Now the snakes won‘t crawl over that line. We‘re fine.‖ And then they laid there and she told stories most of the night. They couldn‘t sleep anyway I guess. She told them stories. But for her to do that with these two boys, you know, it‘s a very special memory for our son to this day. FM: We have a picture of them just as they‘re getting ready to— JM: Yes, they‘re getting ready to take off. FM: --that we can show you later. JM: No, she didn‘t fish; she just enjoyed the woods and people. She was very nice, a lovely woman, and she just died recently [died October 20, 2006]—until the day she died, she still kept in communication. FM: Oh, yes, very close, very close to us. JM: He died on their 60th anniversary, and she lived for many years after that. I don‘t know. I think those were the most fun people we had, famous— 11 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED FM: And all the Disney crew. JM: Oh, yes, the Disney crew. TB: So, did all the Disneyland people come or--? JM: An awful lot of them. FM: The Disney Studios. JM: Yes, Milt Kahl was an animator. FM: He was the chief animator. JM: And Ken Anderson was chief art director. FM: He was the art director, and he was one of the original ones, they were the original ones that Walt started out Disney Studios with. JM: And Peterson was— FM: Ken Peterson was the other one. JM: I can‘t remember-- They were all way up there. We actually did meet Walt Disney once. We went down there to see all of them, and we met him. He didn‘t fish, he never came up there but-FM: Card Walker, who was after Walt died, he was president of the-- He ran Disney for awhile. He used to come up and fish with us. JM: And Milt Kahl, the animator, he was some kind of a character. He would just kind of like be calm and all of a sudden something would happen and— FM: He‘d explode. JM: --he‘d just blow up. So this one day, Frank had him out fishing. You tell that story. FM: Well, yes, he was fishing down here, but they call it Wright Creek. He had this brand new fly rod. It was the best you could buy at that time. He hooked this fish and through his own stupidity, he lost it. And he jumped up and down, and he grabbed his fly rod and threw it on the ground; and just jumped all over it, just destroyed it. And then all of a sudden he stopped and he said, ― What in the hell did I do that for?‖ He was very volatile like that, I‘ll tell you, he really was. Oh, he was so talented, you know, one of those really hyper-talented guys, and— JM: And we had that Art Cohen, the surgeon that was-- he was such a good surgeon that he was called on by the state department to go over and operate on that prince in— FM: The King of Siam, actually. JM: Yes, he was the King of Siam. Yes, Art was—he was a pretty good fisherman, but his wife was better. 12 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED FM: Well, don‘t tell Art that, if he‘s still alive, either one of them. JM: But she was. FM: She was a good fisherman. She loved it. JM: We had a few people, a few women that were pretty good, and she was one. But Art, he lost that rod that time he laid it on top of the car or something, and it was a brand new rod too. FM: Yes, yes. JM: He drove off and ran over it or something. FM: But Ken Anderson who was the art director of Disney. He was just one of the finest persons we ever-- He was a remarkable man. JM: Very gentle man. FM: Very gentle guy. JM: He had a— FM: He‘s the one that actually developed a lot of the movies, you know, for them, a lot of the regular movies. The Sword and the Stone was one of them that they were just working on when he‘d come up here, and this one gal that was staying with us, her name was Gaye Wolf, and today that term— JM: And he put a character in The Sword and the Stone, a wolf, and called it Gay Wolf. FM: That‘s where he got that from. JM: It was named because of his meeting Gaye Wolf, it just, a thought that hit him, you know. And when our daughter lost her long-time dog friend, he died in her arms. He had a heart attack and just died in her arms. It was a very tragic thing. And Ken‘s way of consoling her was to draw a picture of the dog for her. Yes, our other daughter has it to this day. FM: We had several drawings, original drawings of his, you know, different Disney characters, and we had a lot of the— JM: Some of the celluloids. FM: Some of the celluloids that they were used in making the different films. JM: He gave us one for each one of the kids, so each one has one now. FM: Yes, and they‘re very valuable. JM: Yes, they‘ve gained a lot of value, I guess— 13 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED FM: But Ken is also the original designer of the first Disneyland. That was one of the chores that Walt gave to Ken, so it was a pleasure to— JM: He took us on a tour. Our daughter Colleen was just a little kid. We went down to Disneyland with her. We‘d gone with the other kids before, but this time they were grown up and she was the one that was the big cheese. He took us on a tour, and that was when they‘d just opened It’s a Small World that darling little ride. And so he was our guide. We went through that, and it just all went by so fast. I reacted, Oh, I just loved it, and so did Colleen, with all its costumes, it was so different and everything. So we get out of there, and here‘s this big line waiting to get through there, and he told the fella, ― We‘re going to go through it again.‖ I don‘t think the kid was very happy because of the line waiting. But we stayed on, went through it twice. FM: Ken had a severe stroke when he was 50 years old; fairly young. JM: One of those near death experiences. FM: He had one of those near death experiences where he actually – he swore he was out of his body, and he— JM: Looking down on himself. FM: --looked down on himself and his wife and doctors and everything. And after that— JM: He said he didn‘t really want to go back into his body, but it was kind of like he was told to. FM: He had to go back and finish up something. But he actually, after that, he wouldn‘t kill a fly or anything— JM: He didn‘t fish anymore. FM: No, he wouldn‘t fish anymore. JM: He loved to come up, but he just— FM: He‘d come up but he just watched, no, he didn‘t want— JM: He didn‘t want to put a hook in his fish— FM: He didn‘t want to hurt anything. JM: He didn‘t want to kill a fly. He didn‘t want to hurt anything. FM: But he was one of the – he was truly a wonderful man. Boy, he was-- There‘s a picture of him over there on the wall. JM: Yes. FM: Just really a jewel. TB: How about, were there some other politicians that came up? FM: Yes, we had governors and— 14 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED JM: We had Governor McCall, and we had Governor Straub, Oregon governors, come. We had Nat Reed, who was the— FM: Secretary of— JM: Under Secretary of the Interior, came. FM: Yes. JM: A nice, wonderful man. FM: And John Kitzhaber, our current governor, and the governor was a very close friend. In fact, he was a classmate of our son Frankie when he was in med school. They were in med school together. They‘d sneak out and go fly fishing, cut classes and go fly fishing on the Kalama or on the Deschutes, something like that, and have somebody take notes for them while they were in med school. JM: Yes, we have a wonderful story about John because we were living here, and I brought my mother here too when she was dying, and she stayed here for those few months ‗til she died. The doctor in Portland had told me that there was nothing they could do up there that I couldn‘t do here. But John was an emergency room doctor in Roseburg, and another friend, they both were classmates of Frankie‘s. They told me, they said, ― If you need any help at all just call and we‘ll help.‖ And so, I did one day because I knew she really was fading and I was wondering should I put her in the hospital. So John came up and he looked her over and held her hand; and I don‘t know where she found the strength but she squeezed his hand, and he said, ― I really can‘t tell you, it‘s your decision. We could probably prolong her life a few weeks if you put her in the hospital. It‘s up to you to make that decision,‖ so we made the decision that it was probably more quality to just stay where she was. So anyway, just a day or so later, she passed away, and we called John and Paul, and they came up, and borrowed an ambulance from a friend, and came up and picked up Mom. I‘ve never forgotten that. I mean, they were just there for us – so there‘s a real human side to our governor. FM: --governor, yes. TB: Oh, very good. The next question I was going to ask you, if you‘d talk a little bit about your conservation efforts on the river. FM: Oh, the main thing in my conservation efforts, I always say that it‘s not so much of what I knew or did, but it‘s who I knew. JM: Yes, but Honey, you started going on those streams and taking those temperature readings and— FM: Yes, I used to take them every day in the summertime. JM: It would be crazy because he‘d be away from the place. FM: Every day in the summertime, I‘d take several hours out of the middle of the day, and at the heat of the day, and go to these little streams throughout the basin and take temperatures or see what was going on. It was obvious that when they came in and logged all along the streams that those streams would be sterile afterwards. The fish would be gone. 15 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED JM: The temperatures would rise into the 80s. FM: Much of the kill head, just eliminate the little Salmonids. Some of your trash fish, your dace and your shiners and things would come in, but your Salmonids would be gone, so they were just wiping out basically the steelhead. JM: The nursery for the steelhead was being destroyed. FM: Just at that same time, these fellas came by that were heading for British Columbia and stayed with us for a night to fish, and I explained to them what was going on. So instead of going to British Columbia, and they were going to go to British Columbia and make some short movies, short subjects on fishing. So instead of that, they went back down and picked up some underwater gear and came up and made this 13 minute movie called Pass Creek with the information I gave them and everything, and that was the one thing that helped change logging practices throughout the United States. They made that movie, and then I took it all over the country, and in fact, back to Congress. I showed it in Congress and all over. I‘d just make arrangements to go to different organizations, meetings, you know, and show the film. JM: Well, the BLM got a copy of the thing, and they were showing it. FM: Then the BLM would – actually it focused on improper logging, that they were doing improper logging, and the Bureau of Land Management, U. S. Department of Interior. And they got a copy of it and started showing it and were saying how I was— JM: Exaggerating. FM: --exaggerating. It wasn‘t all true, and all that. And I happened to have some moles inside the organization that would say, Hey, they‘re going to show it here, so I would be in the audience. And the minute they‘d start in, I‘d nail them, and it was very interesting. I‘ll tell you, some of the head people in the state here especially really got to hating me because I was making them look too bad. JM: But it‘s very interesting because before that, you tried talking to the BLM. FM: Oh, I tried talking to them. You couldn‘t talk to them. JM: Yes, you couldn‘t talk to them. They knew what they were going to do, and that‘s what they did. FM: The heck with the fish. We‘ve got to get those logs out, you know. JM: That film is still a very impressive film, all these years later, because you still see where they can get away with it. You still see— FM: Yes, they still— JM: --people logging through the stream and you know. FM: They still screw up if they can. TB: Now, all the time that you were here, was it fly fishing only water? 16 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED FM: Not when – back when I used to guide for Clarence, you could use anything. Then in 1951, in the fall of 1951 and for the ensuing years, the Department of Fish and Wildlife in Oregon put regulations through to fly fishing only, basically to protect – supposedly it was to protect the salmon in the upper river. These people at the Roseburg Rod and Gun Club were very forward looking, if I may use that, not quite the word that I want to use. JM: At that time— FM: But they were looking forward to when the new highway would come up alongside the river and give access that was never there before, and they knew that it would wipe out the stocks up here. But they used the salmon because that was the one that everybody focused on, but they were really concerned with the summer steelhead because they knew they were fragile. So they passed a regulation to protect it by going to flies only, artificial flies only, and it‘s been a saving grace for the river. Except that when they use these, as they use so frequently now they‘ll use, in the wintertime now, the heavy weighted flies and all that stuff. JM: People try to circumvent. FM: Yes, they try to circumvent the regulations, you know, especially some of these idiots that just – they just don‘t understand it. JM: I don‘t know what happens to people, but sometimes they get so carried away with being able to say, I landed this many fish, that that becomes more important than— FM: Than the fishery itself and the fish itself. TB: Now what about – when did they put the dam in? FM: Started in the late, around 1949, or something like that, and I think the whole thing was finished in about 1954, something like that. TB: And you were fishing up there then, because didn‘t the dam really, wouldn‘t it have changed the fishery quite a bit? FM: Oh, yes. JM: Oh, yes. FM: Oh, yes. And what happened, especially in the main river, it traps all the gravel, and there‘s very little gravel movement from the upper river. Right now there‘s more gravel trapped behind Soda Springs Dam, the spawning gravel, the smaller gravel. A lot of the stuff in the river now is cobble that steelhead can‘t use, and trout. And the upper river especially has really been – a lot less steelhead in the upper river than it used to be. JM: For a few years, those logging practices were so bad that there was a lot of gravel coming down below, from the creeks. FM: From the creeks, yes. JM: But now that they‘ve improved their practices and those creeks are stabilizing, you‘re not getting gravel movement to make up for it from those sources. 17 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED FM: But I say, I was just fortunate enough that in most of my conservation efforts, I knew the right people in high places to be able to really implement a lot of the things that we— JM: Yes, to be listened to. FM: Yes, yes. JM: That‘s the whole thing. FM: That was the whole thing. JM: I had this little project going, I guess it‘s a little project, just to save a research natural area up here, and the same thing happened there. It was because of the contacts, actually, that we had. I mean, we did all this tromping around and gathered all our evidence, and they wouldn‘t even consider it. Even though the Forest Service had set this whole thing up, to be done, they really wouldn‘t consider what we did. And we had to just plain go over the local office, that‘s all, in order to have our work considered. We had the information. It was enough on its merits to protect that area, but we weren‘t getting anywhere with people that wanted to get a few more logs out. TB: I know that you formed a group, then, called the Steamboaters. FM: Yes, that was basically the— JM: The Pass Creek film was actually the— FM: But it was before that that Colonel Hayden, this old gentleman with the big ears up here, Colonel James L. Hayden, and Ken Anderson and— JM: Don Haines. FM: Don Haines— JM: And Stan Knouse FM: --and Stan Knouse were the four of them, four or five of them that really –and me of course – that decided we wanted to start this one group and basically as a social group, you know, out of the Inn. JM: Well, and – they wanted it to be social and conservation. They wanted both. FM: And anyway, it was out at the Inn that was the headquarters of it. That was the same year that right after, that next year after the Steamboaters, I think it was, when Pass Creek came out, so we took it back and showed it at the Federation of Fly Fishers meeting back at Jackson Hole, and that was the first time that it was shown publicly. JM: Did you fly back for that? FM: Yes, I flew back there and took it back, yes. TB: I noticed now that there‘s a North Umpqua Foundation. FM: Foundation, yes. 18 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED TB: Now, did the Steamboaters kind of roll into that, or are they two very separate things? FM: Well, the Foundation was set up to funnel money. JM: It was a nonprofit that was set up because they had a big project come up when they tried to reactivate the power station down there on the dam out of Roseburg, and it was just chewing up the fish. So that became the second project, and they had to get lawyers, and that was just taking so much money, and that‘s when they set up the nonprofit to raise the money for that. FM: And also, you know— JM: So the two were connected to start with, but now they‘re two separate— TB: Do the Steamboaters still exist? FM: Yes. JM: Oh, yes, but they are also a nonprofit now, so that both our—The Foundation still raises the money mostly for— FM: Fish watch. JM: Yes, for fish watch and— FM: Stream observation. JM: --scientific studies and that sort of thing. And the Steamboaters are still more active— FM: Protection of— JM: --in the protection of the river. FM: --the resource itself. JM: Yes, but they originally were a part of the same group. Why it split up I never did really understand why they did. FM: Well, politically, you know, on a nonprofit you can‘t be politically active, and so they set up the Foundation to— JM: So the Steamboaters had to change how they operated. TB: So they‘re the more political group? FM: The Steamboaters are, yeah. JM: Yes, they still are more involved. They go to all the hearings for the Fish and Wildlife. They set the regulations and all that sort of thing. But we lost the social end of it a lot when we sold the Inn. They met for a little 19 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED bit after we sold it, but the Van Loans had other things to do with the place. So they just have not ever had a social-And the Steamboaters is an organization that has a lot of out-of-state people as members. There‘s another fly fishing group in Roseburg that started up a few years ago, just to be a social group, so people get together and go on fishing jaunts together, that sort of thing. Because Steamboaters strictly became—There just was no place really for them to gather and do all their-- They did it for awhile, but it just got harder to do, so. I‘m pleased that they still are active. I‘m pleased about that. FM: I‘ve been very—Of course I was so active in conservation and everything, and I was blessed to be able to receive many very prestigious awards because of that, National Wildlife Federation, and the Sears-Roebuck Foundation. That was the first really big one I got, for conservation. And then, the Audubon Society, and Izaak Walton League of America, they gave me their big awards. I was one of the first ones that really spoke out about wild trout management and wild fish management. So, what was the guy‘s name? JM: He served on the local fish commission, not the fish commission, the wildlife. What was it called in those days? FM: I was twice appointed the Oregon Game Commission. JM: The Oregon Game Commission, it was not Fish and Wildlife at that time. FM: No, and which is the Fish and Wildlife Commission today. And then, I was twice appointed to that by Governor McCall, and then I served for one term on the state water board. That was an appointment by Governor Bob Straub. Oh, the Anders Award was for wild trout management in the country. And let‘s see, the Federation of Fly Fishermen gave me the—The World Federation of Fly Fishing gave me their Conservationist of the Year Award. And the wildlife— JM: It wasn‘t for the year that you-- That was kind of interesting because they did as a back thing for all that you‘ve been doing. FM: Everything I‘ve done, yes. JM: Yes, because that year you hadn‘t been very active. FM: But then the Wild Steelhead Coalition up in Washington, they made me their Conservationist of the Year. And here, last year I was enshrined in the World Freshwater Fishing Hall of Fame. TB: So have you been very involved with the Federation of Fly Fishers? FM: Not for a long time. I was one of the first, original people in it. TB: Did you go to their first conclave when it was in Eugene? FM: Yes, I was there. TB: You did, okay. FM: In Eugene, yes, I was there. In fact, I flew up and landed in the field right across from the old Country Squire Inn. 20 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED JM: He knows all these things that he went to this and he went to that. Guess who was home taking care of the…yes, right. TB: Behind every man there‘s a good woman, (or something like that!). FM: Yes. TB: What made you decide to get your pilot‘s license? FM: Oh, I started flying in 1939. TB: Oh, okay, even before the war. FM: Oh, yes. JM: Yes, he thought he was a shoo-in to be— He went down— FM: The day after Pearl Harbor, I was down at the Portland airbase trying to enlist in the air corps because I knew I was going to be a fighter pilot because I already had my license, and that‘s the first time I realized I was color blind. The old flight surgeon came out at the end of the day—I got through everything fine, and I thought I‘m in, Goodbye, Jeanne, and I‘ll be darn, the flight surgeon came out and says, ― Moore, do you realize that you‘re 90% I have to reject you;‖ or I‘d have been gone right then. We know that we‘d colorblind.‖ I said, ― No, sir.‖ He said, ― probably have never been married. JM: Yes, we do. TB: So, do you tie a lot of flies yourself? FM: I have— JM: Not anymore. FM: Not anymore, my hands just don‘t work. TB: Well, did the colorblind affect your fly tying? FM: Oh, yes. JM: I think that‘s why he went to those-- His favorite fly was a skunk, which is black and white and a little touch of red, and I don‘t know if he knew it was red or green, but anyway it made no difference. And then he does some ugly muddler which is just all— FM: Brown. JM: --brown stuff, so you know, those were his favorite flies, so now I know why. Oh, brother. It‘s amazing how many fishermen we know that are colorblind, that tie flies. FM: Yes. Another interesting story is making one movie here a couple years ago, and the producer asked me, he says, or she, I can‘t remember which one it was, if it was a woman or a man this time. Anyway, they said, ― Well, 21 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED Frank, what were your feelings and thoughts when going into Normandy and the ramp went down on the landing craft before you hit the beach?‖ Well, I said, ― I thought of two things, my beautiful wife Jeanne that I‘d left back home, and the other thing was my brand new Montague fly rod that I‘d just gotten before I went in the service, and I can‘t remember which came first‖ JM: Yes, that was always his big joke. JM: Not funny! TB: So, were you there on June 6? FM: No, about the next day (in a later wave). TB: Wow. Not normally part of our fly fishing interviews, but could you tell me a little bit about that? I mean, that‘s fascinating. FM: Not much to tell -- you‘re just there. TB: And you just go for it. JM: And you go underwater for a bit, I guess. FM: Yes, when you went out, you were just, you had to get into shore and you got pretty wet for a few minutes there. JM: He didn‘t land at Omaha. He landed at— FM: Utah Beach. JM: Utah Beach was— FM: We were back there in 1989, and the mayor of Sainte Marie du Mont, the village right there at Utah Beach, made me an honorary citizen. TB: Oh, nice, nice. JM: That was an amazing thing in France. In Normandy, I mean, these people could not do enough for you when they found out you were a veteran of the landing. And they didn‘t mind in Paris if they cheated you a little or something, but they sure didn‘t in Normandy. They really appreciated that soldier boy yet, even still. FM: And the French government gave me some stuff. I went also the whole thing from the beach, and we went up into Brittany, and took some of the towns up to Saint Malo and some of that area, and then we— JM: They were supposed to try to make a port for landing supplies out of that or something and something happened and it didn‘t work. FM: Yes, they were going to import a landing site (for supplies). But when we went in with the 7th Corps and the 4th Infantry Division and went up towards Cherbourg. Just before they captured Cherbourg, we were transferred out of the 4th Division into the 83rd Infantry Division, which came in on the 20—they actually went into combat around 22 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED the 27th of June, I think it was. So we went over and joined them in the hedge rows there. The first 10 days that the 83rd was in action, they lost 4800 kids in those hedge rows. JM: Yes, they talked so much about the landing, but those hedge rows were just terrible. FM: They were awful. Then I went up into Luxembourg, and by that time the 83 rd was down to practically, well, even with the replacements they were receiving, they were pretty short on people, so we stayed there for quite awhile to rebuild the division and get it back. And then we went up into Hurtgen Forest, and that‘s where we were when the Battle of the Bulge started, and we went around and hit the northern flank of the Bulge, so, it was— JM: In the thick of what was one of the coldest winters on— FM: It was miserable. JM: --on record for many, many, for a long, long time. FM: We didn‘t have our winter clothing. JM: They hadn‘t been issued winter clothing because the— FM: It was awful. JM: --powers that be thought the war would be over by Christmas. FM: Yes, that was a miserable time. JM: The Germans soldiers still had a little bit of fire left. FM: And after we got through the Bulge there, well, the 83rd Infantry Division went across Northern Germany to Magdeburg, over the Elbe, what they called the Truman Bridge over the Elbe there, and then some of the guys got within just a few miles, I mean a very few miles of Berlin. JM: Only because they were lost. FM: They got lost; at least that‘s what they said anyway. JM: Everybody was moving so fast, I think. FM: We thought they were gone, and by gosh they came back, but that‘s when the war was over, and then we met the Russians there just over the Elbe. TB: Well, going back to Steamboat Inn, why did you sell it, then, in 1975? FM: She was tired. TB: Okay. JM: Well, it started in 1970, we lost a daughter in a car wreck, and you start thinking about your priorities at that point, I think, and we started doing-- This one friend just said, Okay, you‘ve got to do something different here, and 23 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED so in the wintertime we took up cross country skiing. He was a Norwegian skier, and he was terrific, and he tried to teach us to be good. Frank did pretty darn well. I was never beyond mediocre, but we did it and it was beautiful, it was just, to get out there like that. So, I don‘t know, something happens to you and you just-- We already had this property. We had been able to get that, and he had built a rental—We had two rentals on it by then, I guess. It just became a dream to move down here on this property. TB: And were you semi-retired then, or did you go back and do more guiding? JM: We started working in Alaska, summers, actually. TB: And what did you do in Alaska during the summers? FM: Worked for the National Park Service. JM: He worked for the park service, and I did botany work for them, volunteer botany work for them. TB: So it had nothing really to do with fly fishing, it was just doing other--? JM: Well, he was expected to work with and guide the VIPs that came around. FM: VIPs. TB: So why don‘t you tell me a little bit about your Alaska time? FM: Well we were—actually we went up near the— JM: We started at Katmai National Park. FM: --Katmai National Park, and I did— JM: It‘s famous for its bears. FM: --and built some of the park service lodging there at Katmai. JM: And he rebuilt some that the bears had torn up. FM: Yes, rebuilt things that the bears had torn up. Then after that, they wanted me to go up and start at Lake Clark, which is brand new park established there in that time, 1980. JM: Yes, I think it was the second year of the park‘s existence that we moved up there. FM: They hadn‘t had any place for living or anything like that at all. Jeanne and I were the first ones there at the headquarters. We went in there and we were the base. JM: So we went to Lake Clark there for several years. FM: Yes. 24 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED JM: And I watched it grow. It was really fun to see it in those first stages. You know, you‘re living in a bush community. It was a great experience. TB: Did you fly yourself in and out, then, you took your plane? JM: No. FM: No, no, no. JM: We would fly commercially into Anchorage, and then they would fly us in. FM: And everything had to be taken in by airplane when we were out there. JM: We took huge gunnysacks full because we could take a lot of dried food and that sort of thing in there because once we were in there we were in. Other people, some of the rangers would be flying in and out for some reason, and they‘d bring you a little fresh produce sometimes or some meat or something. FM: Ice cream. JM: One time they brought ice cream. That was quite the event. FM: Yes, the deputy director of Alaska brought this five gallons of ice cream in. He was going to take some of it down to Katmai. JM: But it didn‘t ever get to Katmai. FM: Not very much of it anyway. JM: No, it didn‘t because by the time we‘d finished, there was still one more—you know, that‘s when Tom Betts came in, and there was only enough left for him to have a dish, and that was it. It was gone. FM: We sure cleaned it up. TB: Any thoughts about how fly fishing changed over the time that you were really involved in it, or any thoughts about the future of fly fishing? JM: Well, the rods have sure changed. FM: Yes, they‘re a lot different now than they used to be. JM: You don‘t get the same lines either. FM: No, great improvement in the lines, except the first lines that we used were still the finest line I have ever used. It was the old Ashaway, Golden Ashaway. JM: You still have one in the freezer. FM: I still have one. I‘ve got another one in there too. 25 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED JM: But they aren‘t usable. FM: They‘re not usable, but they were a wonderful line. Even with all the modern technology and everything, they still can‘t quite equal that. But they have all the different lines now. You‘ve got sinking lines, and today everybody, for some reason, thinks you have to get down and dirty. You have to get down and scrape the bottom with your flies, and it‘s just a bunch of— JM: Not everybody. FM: Well, most of the people. JM: An awful lot of them. Also, the introduction of the Spey rod in the United States; Jack Hemingway was the first one to use one on the North Umpqua that I knew of. TB: Interesting. About what year was that? FM: I can‘t remember. JM: 1960s, it was in the 1960s. It was in the mid 1960s, somewhere. FM: But like I say, I say this and a dear friend of mine who just recently died. The only reason people go to Spey rods is because they don‘t want to learn how to cast. TB: Well, we interviewed Denise Maxwell, and she said her husband was the one that kind of introduced it to Canada, and it was because of his arthritis that he started bringing that back, because he had lived in England at some point, so he started-JM: It was easier for him to do. TB: It was easier, once he had arthritis. JM: Because Frank finds it harder to do. FM: Yes. TB: Oh, okay. JM: But Frank has such an easy cast that—a lot of people, you know, cast way out— FM: Way up here, up— JM: --and I don‘t know, their arms wear out, but Frank has never cast that way. So he can— FM: I let the rod do the work, not my arm. JM: And the rods do the work for you now, a lot more than the old rods did. A lot of those rods, you had to really work at it. FM: Yes, you still let them do the work. 26 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED JM: I was trying to think, the first rod you had, what was it made of? The first one? FM: Well, the first rod I had was bamboo, that old Montague that I first got in 1942. JM: Okay, yes, he had a Montague. FM: Then I had some Grangers— JM: Granger-- Fiberglass rods were— FM: My first one was Shakespeare, I think, Wonderod. JM: Well, then you got a fiberglass that—who was the fella that made the fiberglass rods that was so good? FM: Oh, yes, Peak, Russ Peak. JM: Russ Peak, okay. FM: Russ Peak rods were—they were a great rod, but they were more rod than I could handle now. JM: Yes, right. FM: Heavy, big rods. JM: You still have your Russ Peak rods some place. FM: I‘ve got three of them up there. TB: What do you like to do now most? I mean, I saw your waders out there, so I know you‘re still fishing. FM: Well, what do you mean by that? TB: Fly fishing, you mostly do the river here? FM: Yes, but you know I love trout fishing in the small streams. JM: Yes, he fly fishes trout streams. In fact, more now than you used to because— FM: Have more time to do it now than we used to. JM: Well, what‘s fun about it is if you go to these little trout streams, they‘re usually these really neat wildflowers around. TB: And that‘s your thing? JM: And that‘s my big thing, right now. FM: And she‘s important too. TB: Oh you betcha! 27 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED JM: Yes, this last year we went to Logan Valley, which is at the foot of the Strawberry Mountains in Eastern Oregon. It‘s a spot neither of us had been. Most people we‘ve talked to haven‘t been to. And it was a wildflower, I can‘t tell you— FM: Heaven. JM: Well, it was just—hard to describe. It was just beautiful. But the rivers were out of shape. There was too much water. Of course that‘s why so many wildflowers, I guess. So we didn‘t stay there long enough, so now we have to go back. TB: There you go. JM: So then we went to the Chewaucan, which he‘d never fished before, and that‘s out of Paisley, east of Silver Lake, and getting over still to more southern part of the state, and it was out of shape, so they found some mountain lakes to fish in. It‘s just, just to see that new country and the wildflowers this year because of the strange weather was just—they were just magnificent. FM: I fly fished for Atlantic salmon back in Northeastern Canada, went three or four times now, and fished over in England, and Brittany. I fished for salmon in Brittany. JM: But we haven‘t traveled around like a lot of these fellas that have traveled everywhere. FM: No. JM: Like our friend Steve Rajeff, I don‘t know where he hasn‘t fished. FM: He‘s going all the time. But I was one of the first ones to fly fish down in the Baja back in the early days. JM: Yes, that‘s true. We went down there, and these fellas would look at Frank like he was absolutely berserk, to be out there with a-- And then he started bringing in these fish. Well, he gave the natives the fish that he caught because where we were staying, the fella said, Oh, those fish are no good; I just give them to the natives. But one day he didn‘t have enough food for some reason or another, so he cooked some and we found out they were pretty good. FM: Pretty darn good. FM: Yes, I was one of the first ones to start fly fishing down there, and I took my fly tying stuff down there, you know. All these Mexican people would crowd around and watch me, what I was doing. JM: Yes, they couldn‘t figure-- After he was bringing in fish, they kind a wanted to see what it was that he was doing, you know. FM: Yes. TB: Well, is there anything else I haven‘t asked you that we should really make sure that we touch? FM: Gosh, I don‘t know. 28 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED JM: I don‘t know; who knows. We just talk all the time. TB: Well, okay, okay. I‘ll say, thank you very much. This has been great! FM: [We‘ve met] some really very wonderful people in every walk of life and from every country. JM: And we‘re still meeting them, that‘s what‘s the fun part. FM: And we‘re still meeting them; that‘s right. JM: That‘s the fun part. FM: Boy I am very disappointed in a lot of the fishermen today though, and we kind of briefly touched on it earlier, that so many of them, their egos get in the way of what fly fishing should be all about. JM: I think a lot of times fellas start out that way, and then through the years they change, but not everybody. FM: Not everybody. And then, competition is getting so great today, you know, that they—It bothers me a lot of times. JM: This river has really—it really has a lot of people fishing it. FM: And I wish that we could go back to where the rivers and the fish were for themselves more than what they are, you know. Everything now, they‘re just everything is focused on people, and maybe that‘s— JM: Well, the Fish and Wildlife Commission has this idea of maximum catch. FM: Maximum, yes. JM: And instead of trying to get a level--well, same thing with the forest with the cutting. They want to cut absolutely at the very top line of what they can cut. It‘s the same with the fishing. There‘s no margin for error left, you know, and that‘s kind of scary. TB: You made a comment earlier about not being what fly fishing was about. What basic thing is fly fishing about? FM: Well to me, fly fishermen should be concerned with the resource itself, and a lot of them are, but there‘s a heck of a lot of them that‘s just, like I say, it‘s just a matter of ego. JM: They‘re out for their own ego. Well, I landed all these fish this time today. FM: And they don‘t—There‘s this fella I was telling you about, Rich Simms, up here at the Wild Steelhead Coalition in Washington. He is, to me, is really the epitome of what a good fly fisherman is. He is a wonderful young man. JM: He really— 29 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED FM: He is so dedicated. JM: He works so hard at it. FM: He‘s a jewel, and to me, he is what everyone should be. JM: You wish everyone— FM: I wish everyone was like that because he is a real jewel, and I hope you get a chance to— JM: Interview him, yes. TB: Now, I‘ll just ask you one more. I know that Zane Grey started coming to the North Umpqua because the Rogue had gotten so busy, right? And then— FM: Yes. JM: He blamed himself for some of that. FM: Yes. TB: Yes, I read that in a book this morning. I shouldn‘t—I mean I‘m not an expert, other than what I read this morning. Is there a feeling that the North Umpqua‘s gotten too busy, and was there a place that people went to after that? JM: After the North Umpqua? TB: Yes. I mean, the Deschutes is a big river well known too, is that— JM: The Deschutes is over fished. FM: It is ludicrous today. JM: In Oregon, I don‘t know where. TB: Everything‘s probably over done? FM: Yes. JM: People go—where do people go? They go to Russia if they can get there, and they go to, of course, South America, they go down to Chile. FM: Yes, Patagonia. JM: Yes, they just search out— FM: New Zealand. JM: The people that have money go wherever they can find their fish. Like it says in our little, you know, Pass Creek, there‘s one line… 30 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED FM: Yes, we‘ll show you that Pass Creek before you leave. TB: Yes, yes. JM: But in the place, how‘s that go? FM: In the places no one sees (referring to logging continuing despite regulation). JM: For awhile, people can find other streams and fish them for a while, but then when those places are gone, they can find others until there is no place left to go. FM: Yes, it‘ll say it right in there. The fellows that made that were Hal Riney, and partner Dick Snider. They were the two boys that made it. JM: We should have talked about Hal in the famous people because— TB: Oh go for it. We‘re still on. I put us back on. FM: Yes, Hal Riney; at that time when he first came up here, was not what he eventually wound up to be, but he wound up as probably the greatest advertising man the world has ever seen. JM: And he made that film for us, 13 minutes of power. FM: He was the one that actually ran Reagan‘s television campaign for his second term, and he‘s the one that Ross Perot—He was going to run Ross Perot‘s when, and ol‘ Perot decided to— JM: Perot was dumb enough to get rid of him. FM: Yes. JM: That made us realize Ross Perot wasn‘t very smart. FM: But Hal, he was one of the—there are very few of them inducted into the World Advertising Hall of Fame, and he‘s one of them. JM: He‘s dead now. FM: He died a couple years ago [March 24, 2008 in San Francisco, California]. JM: And his partner that helped make that film died years— FM: Very young. JM: --very young. FM: Forty-some years old. JM: They took on that project and they sure did it. FM: But Hal— 31 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED JM: And Hal was always proud of that film. FM: Oh yes, you bet. JM: He was proud of that film. FM: What‘s interesting though is that Hal, like on conservation, he was just wonderful, but he said he‘d never—He wouldn‘t work for the Democrats. JM: Yes, he wrote his speeches for the Republicans because he was a big power man. FM: Oh, yes, he really was. JM: He told Frank, he said, I could convince— FM: I could make anyone believe anything I want them to believe; and he could. TB: Oh, wow. That‘s not necessarily good. FM: And that‘s so obvious today, you know. These think tanks— JM: Some of these ads come across and how people are influenced. FM: And they just keep pounding, pounding, pounding. That‘s what‘s ruined our politics. Our political system today is that very same thing, and Hal really got involved with that. JM: Well, Hal was very good at it, and people learned a lot from him about how to be effective. FM: Yes, he wrote Reagan‘s Iceland speech, you know that one big famous Iceland speech that Reagan had. JM: That was one of his famous speeches. FM: He wrote that, and yes, he was quite a guy. He was, oh what‘s that wine? JM: Gallo. FM: Oh, the Gallo wines down in—If you ever saw those ads or not, those Bartles and Jaymes ads, the big tall guy and the little short-- Hal was the one that ran those. JM: Yes, well, and he worked for Gallo for many years, and then finally, Gallo was one of these people that would just-- Hal would work and work, and he‘d just throw out the whole thing and say do it again, or whatever. And Hal finally just got, even though it was a multimillion dollar business— FM: Yes, it was a 60 million dollar business for Hal, a year. JM: Hal just said, just told him this one time, he says, ― You don‘t show me anything.‖ I don‘t need you. And he just gave up the account. FM: Threw that 60 million buck account out the window. 32 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED JM: Yes. FM: When you made as much money as he did, what‘s that? JM: I guess. FM: He sold his business finally and made-- He would come up here. He would hire an airplane in San Francisco, fly it up here, and he‘d keep it in Roseburg on standby while he‘d come up here fishing for days on end. TB: Oh, wow. FM: And his boy, when he went to the University of Arizona, he bought him a Bentley. JM: A brand new Bentley. FM: Brand new Bentley, and the poor kid— JM: The poor kid says, ―I t‘s a handicap.‖ FM: He said, ― It‘s not good to have something like that‖ JM: He just wanted to be like the other guys. Well, how you going to do that if you‘ve got a Bentley. TB: Wow. FM: But Hal, he was a good friend, until the old cigarettes killed him. FM: But he was— JM: Now we‘re through talking. FM: Yes. TB: Okay. JM: Go get Pass Creek. TB: Great, thanks. End of transcript Footnote: On September 16, 2011, French President Sarkozy, decreed that Frank Moore had been appointed a ―Ch evalier‖ of the Legion of Honor. The following is quoted from the French Ambassador‘s information letter: ― I am pleased to inform you that by decree of President Sarkozy on September 16, 2011, you have been appointed a ―Ch evalier‖ of the Legion of Honor. This award testifies to President Sarkozy‘s high esteem for your merits and accomplishments. In particular, it is a sign of France‘s infinite gratitude and appreciation for your personal and precious contribution to the United States‘ decisive role in the liberation of our country during World War II. The 33 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED Legion of Honor was created by Napoleon in 1802 to acknowledge services rendered to France by persons of great merit. The French people will never forget your courage and devotion to the great cause of Freedom.‖ Signed: Francois Delatre, French Ambassador to the United States The award ceremony was held on November 9, 2011. They may now be referred to as Sir Knight Frank and Lady Jeanne. 34 Frank and Jeanne Moore Edited Transcript – August 22, 2011 Fly Fishing Collection ©Western Washington University Libraries Special Collections ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
Show less

MABEL: Multimedia Archives Based Electronic Library

Search results

Refine

Date

Type of content

Genre/form

Related Collection

Object custodian

Topics

Place Names

Name (as creator)